Giving Careful Thought to the Paths…repentance.

A very insightful and informative article from Art Thomas about the “guilt by association” accusations that have been levelled against his ministry and others.

I thank the Lord for it.

I know that a few weeks ago I probably would have eagerly dismissed and cautioned against ministries like that of Art Thomas and Todd White, not because of anything inherently wrong with the work or the message, but because of alleged associations with others.

Lord, I repent of that attitude and the broad-brush condemnation that it fuelled.

What is the New Apostolic Reformation?

What is the New Apostolic Reformation? Why is it such a big deal to so many people? And what threat does the New Apostolic Reformation pose to the Church?

I want to offer a balanced response to these three questions and hopefully clear up some of the rhetoric and confusion that’s out there. My primary goal here is to give the Body of Christ a reasoned look at a complex topic so that we can be discerning and loving in how we interact on the subject. My secondary goal is to call out false teachers, slanderers, and children of the devil who have built their audiences out of innocent people whose itching ears are eager to hear what they want to hear.

Today I’m going to expose some wolves in sheep’s clothing, prominent theological errors, and divisive lies that are tearing apart the Church.

But it’s probably not going to look like what you expect.

In my best attempt to be like Jesus, I intend to love and defend the innocent while not pulling punches against those who have sown lies, discord, and false doctrine in the Church.

So hold onto your hat!

See full article at link above.

21 thoughts on “Giving Careful Thought to the Paths…repentance.

  1. Hi Tim,
    Yes that’s the article I referred to in the previous thread. Art is correct in his writing, his article does give a biased view of both Wagner and Johnson. I would encourage you and all reading the above to search further for themselves on both Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson (Bethel, Redding) their beliefs and teachings.

    Dominionism isn’t acceptable when it teaches that Jesus will not return until certain men have physically prepared the kingdom on Earth that Jesus will return to – that is ‘Kingdom Now’ false teaching. It will be Jesus Himself who establishes His physical kingdom on Earth after His return and defeat of the final Antichrist and kings of the Earth who stand against Him.

    Others should also to search further for themselves on Kenneth Copeland (Word of Faith) and Francis Chan whom Todd White defends here: as I also mentioned in your previous thread.

    When anyone affirms or promotes another whose teachings and beliefs are a mixture of truth and error – that person has a responsibilty to make others aware of that mixture.

    Tim – please will you check out these ones for yourself – their beliefs and teachings, not just post videos from individuals who themselves affirm and defend the errors and false teachings of others.

    I am surprised you have never heard of these ministries until recently – Bill Johnson and Kenneth Copeland (as well as others) were both spoken about on Stroms forum, and your own experience with ‘Word of Faith’ would, I’d have thought, at least mentioned Copelands name.

    No broad brush of condemnation here Tim – just the sharing of what I see and hear in their belief mixture – and a warning and encouragement to others to be aware, check these things out, compare with Scripture, seek counsel and the teaching of all truth from the Holy Spirit – He was sent us for that reason.

    None of this takes away from what you are saying concerning the truth that God heals today through a gift of healing distributed by the Holy Spirit as He wills. That gift isn’t just something anyone can use at that persons choice and direction – it is as the Holy Spirit wills through direction from God the Father.

    Yes there is an apathy in the church today towards the teachings and examples of Lord Jesus – there is also an acceptance and condoning of the false done in His name.

    What does it imply when professing Christians cannot declare publically that Jesus the Messiah of Almighty God is their Saviour and Lord ?

    In His name and for His Glory,

  2. Roger,
    I am well aware of false teachings across the board in the church community. That is why I assess each teacher and each teaching individually and not according to who they might have associated with.

    And where a teacher have a seriously wrong view about one area, they are not necessarily wrong about everything. It is easy to give a blanket, broad-brush rejection of everything if we focus on the one error and not see the rest.
    That blanket rejection becomes particularly damaging when it starts to be applied to others solely on the basis that they have had contact with or may even be friends with someone in error.

    When I said I’d not heard of certain ministries until recently, I was referring to Todd White and Art Thomas. Of course I’ve been well aware of Bill Johnson and Copeland – the latter for decades, and as a result I’m far more aware of his teachings than those who’ve merely read about them, considering I was an avid follower of his ministry throughout the early 80s. And let me let you into a “secret”, Copeland is not wrong about everything. He is right when he speaks about the need to heed God’s word above every other authority, and that realisation gave me a very clear understanding of the nature of faith that I have continued to hold, even though I came to see his other teachings are often way off-track.

    But as I said earlier, I assessed White and Thomas from what I heard THEM say and do – and not according to who they may have met with at one time or another, or even occasionally.

    I have it on good authority that even Jesus spent time with sinners and even spoke in their defence.

  3. Tim – the ‘secret’ you shared isn’t a secret my friend.. this confirms that Copeland and others believe and teach a mixture which attracts those who aren’t able to discern or haven’t fully researched and checked all his teachings (and those of others) against Scripture.

    It isn’t that White and Thomas ‘associate’ with false teachers Tim – my concern is that they believe and teach error with some truth.

    Of course Lord Jesus spent time with sinners, as do we all – but we should share the truth with them, not condone their misled belief.

    With respect to Dominionism, here is a link to the other aspects that Thomas doesn’t refer to in his article

  4. Roger,
    Can you point me to ONE single person who is NEVER wrong in anything they teach?

    When you find perfection within anyone inside the church; when you find the perfect teacher totally free from any hint of error, please let me know so I can confidently refer to them on my blog.

    In the meantime I’ll just have to trust the Lord in His use of imperfect men, enabled by His Spirit, to lead us towards “unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ”.

    Oh yes, maybe we also need to trust in the voice of His Spirit too, applying the discernment He provides, rather than looking around for others to tell us which teachers are acceptable or not.

  5. Yes I can Tim, first and foremost, not as a maybe – the person of the Holy Spirit.

    And I will petition the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may remain with you to the age, the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you.  Yet a little while and the world no longer sees Me, but you see Me. Because I live, you also shall live…   …In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and shall remind you of all things that I said to you.  I leave peace to you; My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be timid… ..And when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who proceeds from the Father, that One will witness concerning Me. And you also witness, because from the beginning you are with Me.  (John 14,15)

    The point is that no man has all truth, we know that. That does not mean we accept the mixture without pointing out the error. To not do that is to condone the error.

    We are not to focus on the activity, in this case healing, without giving ALL acknowledgement and Glory to God who is, always has been and always will be the true healer. The same applies to prophecy, teaching, everything that is a gift of God through the Holy Spirit. We are to check these things, rebuke the false and accept the truth.

    I’ll repeat again that I encourage ALL to check out whoever is teaching, preaching, prophesying, healing. We should focusing on the One Almighty God who is the source of the truth of these things – not the activities themselves.

    Please understand this Tim – I am not against, not attacking, not bashing, no broad brush of condemnation, any of these individuals who have been named here – I am against any and all false teaching, belief and activity that is not from Almighty God.

    None of this takes away from your focus on being healed by God – and that is where your focus must be – on Him, He is the healer, not any one man. We are praying for you, and will continue to do so – for His will in your life and in the name of Jesus the Messiah our Saviour and Lord – for His Glory – whatever the outcome.

    I share this in His love and with my friendship for you Tim, please focus on Lord Jesus.

    abrother7 counseled you on a previous thread: …If God wants you healed you can rest in that. Come to faith by all means, but please don’t carry the burden of thinking it’s down to you. Jesus is the author and finisher of your faith and if He wants you to be healed by having faith, He will get you there.

    Sickness and death are simply part of a fallen world. For all of my efforts to live in a realm of power and healing I have come to see that I was chasing a theology that would make us little gods, where we are in charge and have dominion over things like sickness. God often heals, no question. But a simple reading of the New Testament shows me that sickness was just a part of life for the early church. Healing was not the norm. Or do you think that everyone died peacefully in their sleep? He may have mercy on you and keep you here for your family and friends, and I hope he does, but Tim, death is not the end. For centuries the true church has had it’s focus on things above, the life to come. Only the past few decades have we moved to a focus on triumphalism in life now, and it’s historically an anomaly, not the norm.

    Your position (in my opinion) places far too much responsibility on you believing God just right. You can believe God just right all you want, but if He says it time to go, you aren’t going to change that. If He wants you healed then follow His leading and I will rejoice with you when He does.

    He does want you at rest in Him and His love for you.

    I’m at peace sharing all that with you because God loves you. He is not a teaser who causes us to strive to almost get to the plateau of faith we need and then say, “Shucks, you nearly had enough faith for me to heal you”. God’s not like that.

    Again, I sincerely hope and pray you get the remission you need….

  6. Roger, your answer regarding the teacher you can recommend is no answer at all. Scripture, inspired by the Holy Spirit says that He has provided human teachers to the church. So please advise which human teachers you know who are totally without error and acceptable to you.

    As for repeating the faithless observations of abrother7 regarding healing, it saddens me that you would consider that those views in any way reflect God’s will and word despite them being contrary to what is clearly revealed in scripture. That kind of attitude is WHY there is such blindness in the church regarding the health of believers – but perhaps more importantly, it cripples the church in the commission Jesus gave to the church, and was demonstrated in the book of Acts: to preach the gospel with signs following, most notably healing to confirm the word.

    It does not take a lot of effort to discover God’s will regarding healing in scripture.
    Despite thinking I was going to have a long road ahead finding the answers through searching the Word, the answer came very quickly, very clearly and spelled out categorically, with God commanding the choice of life. Not only that HE called heaven and earth to witness the fact that He’d done it so that HE could not be blamed should man fail to accept His will in the matter.

    You caution against “mixture” within certain teachers – and yet the view you have supported about health and healing is worse than any mixture, it is a dangerous straight out attack upon God’s word and God’s will, designed to kill belief in an important part of Jesus’ atoning sacrifice.

    If there is any doubt about God’s desire and provision for the healing of all our diseases – then the same doubt would be reflected on His desire and provision to forgive all our sins.
    I have no doubt about either, and my prayer is that others seeking God for healing will not be discouraged and misled by such denials and uncertainty regarding God’s desire and willingness to heal them.

  7. Quite significantly, the healing studies I shared on my blog have provided ample scriptural references for what I’ve discovered. I even covered those “difficult”areas where sickness was reported in the early church.
    But apart fromabrotgher7’s vague mentions of sickness being part of normal life in the early church there is no attempt by him to provide any biblical references to support the assertions and opinions expressed. As a balance to everything else I wrote in my own blog studies I referred to every instance I could find of sickness being mentioned in NT believers, none of which resulted in death.

    One exception comes to mind that I didn’t mention and that was in 1 Cor 11, saying : “those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep”

    That’s not exactly a glowing endorsement of sickness and premature death being part of the natural, God ordained, unavoidable order within a sin effected world, but a clear statement that sickness and death can be attributable to our own failures, and definitely not any reluctance on God’s part.

  8. Tim, you ask of me: So please advise which human teachers you know who are totally without error and acceptable to you.

    I repeat my previous answer to you, which you may have missed: The point is that no man has all truth, we know that. That does not mean we accept the mixture without pointing out the error. To not do that is to condone the error.

    You then say of me: You caution against “mixture” within certain teachers – and yet the view you have supported about health and healing is worse than any mixture, it is a dangerous straight out attack upon God’s word and God’s will, designed to kill belief in an important part of Jesus’ atoning sacrifice.

    No Tim. I have confessed my belief that Almighty God still heals today, that the Holy Spirit is the one who distributes His gifts as He wills. One of those gifts is healing, another is teaching.
    And there are differences of gifts, but the same Spirit;  and there are differences of ministries, yet the same Lord. And there are differences of workings, but the same God is working all things in all. And to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit. For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; and to another, faith by the same Spirit, and to another, gifts of healing by the same Spirit, and to another, workings of powers, and to another, prophecy, and to another, discerning of spirits, and to another, kinds of languages, and to another, interpretation of languages. But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each as He wills.  1 Cor.12

    I also believe that no man has all gifts and that no one gift is given to all.
    And you are Christ’s body, and members in part. And God placed some in the assembly: firstly, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers; then works of power; then gifts of healing, helps, governings, kinds of languages. Are all apostles? All prophets? All teachers? All workers of power?  Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak languages? Do all interpret?  1 Cor.12

    Yes teachers should teach from Scripture the truth concerning the source of these gifts – Holy Spirit given and distributed as HE wills.

    No man can teach how to heal, it isn’t a trade or skill, or pass on the gift man to man. To say or imply that IS against God’s words and His will.

    I note that Thomas is one who believes and teaches that the gift of tongues is given to all as evidence of their baptism in the Holy Spirit. I believe this IS against God’s words and His will.

    In His love and for His Glory,

  9. I offer Paul the Apostle as an example of healing being the will of God:

    But you know that because of weakness of the flesh, I announced the gospel to you before; and you did not despise my trial in my flesh nor disdained it, but you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. What then was your blessedness? For I testify to you that if you were able, plucking out your eyes, you would have given them to me. So then did I become hostile to you, speaking truth to you? Gal.4

    But I thought it needful to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother and fellow-worker, and my fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister of my need, since he was longing for you all and has been troubled because you heard that he was sick. For indeed he was sick, coming near to death; but God had mercy on him, and not only on him, but also me, lest I should have grief on grief. Phil.2

    Lay hands quickly on no one, nor share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. No longer drink water, but use a little wine on account of your stomach and your frequent infirmities. 1 Tim.5

    Erastus remained in Corinth, but I left Trophimus sick in Miletus. 2 Tim.4

    Was Paul disobedient? Did he deny God’s word? Were ALL healed? Perhaps his teaching on the Holy Spirit distributing gifts as He wills to the Church at Corinth was biased because Paul didn’t see ALL healed ?

    None of this takes away from Lord Jesus words of truth and His miracles – it does show that we need the context of all Scripture so that we do not base our belief on teachings containing error from man.

  10. Was Paul disobedient? Did he deny God’s word? Were ALL healed?

    I have addressed this earlier in a post about cases where scripture mentions believers who were ill.

    First note: they all recovered, so yes they were all healed, if not instantaneously.

    Second note: followers of Jesus need to believe God for their own healing – especially believers of a certain Spiritual maturity, and not rely on the Pauls within the church.

    Third note: Healing is received through faith – in the same way forgiveness of sins is received through faith. But it seems like far too many professing Christians are de facto- Calvinists when it comes to healing, believing that healing is determined by “God’s sovereign will”.

    Fourth note: God has revealed His sovereign will regarding the health of His people in scripture and His will is enacted in the lives of men and women in the same way His will for their forgiveness of sins is enacted: through faith. As long as you fail to recognise God’s will regarding health and healing you can never be able to have faith for healing.

    As for teaching healing – I’ve also addressed that before too. Art Thomas teaches what the Bible says about healing and then gets believers in his classes to minister to each other according to what scripture says.

    Healing is NOT limited to the working of the gifts of the Spirit. That is only ONE means of healing that God provides.

    Believers are told they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover.

    The sick are told to call for the elders of the church and the prayer of faith “will make the sick person well” – not MIGHT make them well, or would make them well if only the elders had the gift of healing.

    Healing of ALL diseases is a benefit given by God, no different to the forgiveness of all sins, and can be received through faith in the same way forgiveness of sins is received.

    All of the above are mostly NOT accessed because the opposite has been taught for too long.

    It seems that you are quite willing to submit to the fruit of THAT faithless teaching, based solely on tradition and man’s theology, but have a problem when someone tries to teach what SCRIPTURE says about healing.

    The clear error in the teachings of man is coming from those dead, faith-destroying traditions that make healing inaccessible to anyone apart from those lucky enough to win the divine healing lottery.

    Go to scripture Roger.
    Go to scripture.
    Search the scriptures.
    The answers are clearly revealed in scripture.
    They are not hidden.
    They are not obscure.
    They are blatantly clear.
    God’s will is not revealed in man’s traditions that contradict His word..

  11. That’s very interesting, Tim. And it is interesting that before you began “speaking” of healing, you blogged about consideration for people who are poor. I wanted to find wording for what “discerning the body of Christ” means. So…

    20 When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the gathering* of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.

    And there is this section:

    ESV: … in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a gathering, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

    It is interesting that although the divisions are not something Saul likes, he acknowledged they — or factions — are necessary. Painfully.

    *(I replaced church with gathering as it is more correct for historical connotation.)

    I’m going to include this link, because there are corresponding things to click on.

  12. The point is that no man has all truth, we know that. That does not mean we accept the mixture without pointing out the error

    No Roger, the point is that you call for the rejection of teachers without even considering their teaching – because of alleged connections to others.
    You call for the rejection of teachers because you consider they don’t have the right to teach a particular topic; saying “No man can teach how to heal”. Ignoring the fact that it is possible and legitimate to teach what the Bible SAYS about healing, and what was done when Jesus and the early church healed.

    While you reject the validity of BIBLICAL teaching on healing, your own views will remain tainted by men’s traditions, robbing yourself and others of the glorious benefits God has provided., that are accessible through faith in Him.

    And as I said in another comment – healing is NOT restricted to the gifts of the Spirit. There are several ways God has made healing available, but all are conditional upon faith. When we deny God’s will – we can not exercise faith.

  13. But I suppose we don’t assume Paul, Epaphroditus, and Timothy were all greedy or self absorbed. And whoever Trophimus was.

  14. We could consider the timing of this with Paul. We know he came from the portion of the culture that was powerful and “successful” — whereas Jesus did not (part of why he was rejected). That makes it interesting, too, that Paul strongly reprimanded selfish people in Corinth.

  15. My questions concerning Paul were obviously rhetorical Tim…

    ..and No Tim, I haven’t called for: ..the rejection of teachers without even considering their teaching – because of alleged connections to others.
    You call for the rejection of teachers because you consider they don’t have the right to teach a particular topic; saying “No man can teach how to heal”. Ignoring the fact that it is possible and legitimate to teach what the Bible SAYS about healing, and what was done when Jesus and the early church healed.

    I HAVE encouraged you and others to check out the beliefs and teachings of these men, and compare to Scripture… and I HAVE agreed with you that men can teach what the Bible SAYS about healing..

    I maintain from Scripture that healing comes from God not man. I have clarified this elsewhere by agreeing we can pray for healing for others, however the healing itself remains in the will of God. Yes prayers of faith in Him and His promises – but not the words of the ‘faith of man’ alone outside of His will or direction.

    We are servants of God, doing His will – He does not become our servant BECAUSE we demand it.

    I shared with you by email a little of my own testimony to do with healing and being healed – so you KNOW my own belief and faith in God in that area. Please don’t try and twist my encouragement to others to check these things out as attacking, bashing, condemnation of others or rejection of the truth of scripture with respect to the words and works of Lord Jesus.

    In His name and in His love,

  16. Hi Marleen, the section about the Lord’s supper is especially interesting, looking at problems relevant to why some believers are sick and die. It’s something I need to study more, but initially I see two different, but related situations that could have relevance. The clear one is the matter of “divisions” that allow some to go hungry while others overindulge. That situation seems like an example of the poor being neglected or left in need during a meal that is supposed to be a celebration/commemoration of the Lord’s sacrifice, among a group who are supposed to be representatives of His body.

    One of the most common rebukes given throughout the prophetic books relates to the neglect of the poor. From passages such as this from 1 Cor 11, it seems like that lesson still needed to be learned. Such neglect does not come without spiritual cost.

    Another aspect of “the Lord’s Supper” is what it commemorates – with the sharing of bread representing His broken body, and the wine His shed blood. Considering it is by His wounds (breaking of His body) that we are healed, according to Isaiah, and Peter not discerning the Lord’s body could also relate to the neglect of that part of the atonement.

    People despised and avoided him,
    a man of pains, well acquainted with illness.
    Like someone from whom people turn their faces,
    he was despised; we did not value him.

    In fact, it was our diseases he bore,
    our pains from which he suffered;
    yet we regarded him as punished,
    stricken and afflicted by God.

    But he was wounded because of our crimes,
    crushed because of our sins;
    the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him,
    and by his bruises we are healed,. (Complete Jewish Bible)

  17. But I suppose we don’t assume Paul, Epaphroditus, and Timothy were all greedy or self absorbed. And whoever Trophimus was

    No but they were are all targets of Satan and His attempts to disrupt their service to God.
    But as they all recovered, clearly Satan didn’t get his way for long.

  18. I HAVE encouraged you and others to check out the beliefs and teachings of these men, and compare to Scripture… and I HAVE agreed with you that men can teach what the Bible SAYS about healing

    No Roger, you have continually spoken out against two men appearing in videos I shared Because of their claimed association with others. The warning to check out teachings was mostly an afterthought from you, and as you very well know is my own attitude to any teaching. I have stated time and again that I have found NO problem with the content of those videos I posted -otherwise I would not have posted them. I did NOT post them without seeing their content.

    As for you now saying that you agree that “men can teach what the Bible SAYS about healing” – then why are you denying Art Thomas the right to do that, and waging a campaign against him?
    What he is teaching in those videos is what scripture says about healing – nothing more.

    You say

    I maintain from Scripture that healing comes from God not man

    And I maintain that God has revealed HIs will through scripture and that HE has provided healing through the atonement just the same as He has provided forgiveness of sins. Both healing and forgiveness need to be received by faith.
    Receiving from God what HE has willingly given is not making God our servant. Instead it’s a display of whether we actually believe Him and His word or not.

    Surely you would not think that expecting forgiveness of sins from God would also make Him our servant? After all how dare we actually believe that God provides what HE has promised ?

    Any comments continuing to push the same fruitless issues again and again will no longer be passed through moderation.


    God is love, and His children love. (1 John 4:7-8) According to First Corinthians 13:5-7:

    “[Love] does not dishonor others”… yet these web sites dishonor many who exhibit integrity, love, goodness, humility, and so much of the nature of Jesus.

    “[Love] keeps no record of wrongs”… yet these web sites are nothing but a record of wrongs, airing every mistake a person has ever been known to make and never granting the benefit of the doubt.

    “[Love] always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres”… yet these web sites expose people rather than protecting them, assume the worst of people instead of trusting them, call people heretics and apostates instead of hoping the best for them, and throw the baby out with the bathwater instead of persevering in relationships or seeking to truly know the person first.

    So what then is the solution? It’s simple.
    Recognize there are indeed false prophets and false teachers in the world who need to be avoided. There is no healthy solution that does not acknowledge the existence of the false.


    …. I’ve now seen enough genuine miracles that I no longer need convincing. (I should note, however, that I do also recognize there are false signs and wonders that need to be discerned.)

    [To summarize a portion, the site says not to look for the “fruit” of miracles and signs (in the sense of deciding if a healing is good based on whether people or someone accepted Jesus or not).]
    Good Spiritual Fruit
    Is love the only “fruit” to look for in a minister? Actually, the Bible offers a few identifiers of spiritual fruit:

    Answered prayer (John 15:16)
    Expressions of the nature of Jesus like love, joy, peace, etc. (Galatians 5:22-23)
    Anything that “consists in all goodness, righteousness, and truth” (Ephesians 5:9)
    Productivity in good works (Colossians 1:10)
    A person’s praise to God (Hebrews 13:15)

    In simple terms, just as natural fruit is evidence of life within a plant, spiritual fruit is evidence of the Holy Spirit’s life-giving presence within a person.

    So here is how to know if a miraculous sign comes from God: Simply identify where the sign is pointing. Don’t look at where the people are going; look at where the sign is pointing. Some people drive the wrong way on a one-way street. Some people don’t stop for stop signs. Some people miss their exit on the expressway. If people ignore a sign, it doesn’t mean the sign is wrong. Again, don’t look at where the people are going; look at where the sign is pointing.

    With that said, be on your guard because there are unhealthy ministers out there who may be trying to follow Jesus, but their lives are not bearing good fruit. Jesus talked about people who had good signs in their ministry that were performed in His name, but He didn’t actually have a relationship with those people (Matthew 7:21-23). Don’t follow ministers just because there are good miraculous signs and good spiritual gifts happening. That’s one of the unfortunate things that has happened in the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement. We often give our pulpits to people who have good miraculous signs but lousy character, and we have unfortunately opened ourselves up occasionally to false teachers and false prophets despite our good intentions. God can point to Himself through incredibly sinful people. (Remember when King Saul prophesied on his way to murder David? Check it out in 1 Samuel 19.) The presence of good signs is not necessarily evidence of a good minister.

    But before you go on a witch-hunt, we have to practice a measure of humility, grace, and mercy. No one is perfect. If you’re looking for a minister who is exactly like Jesus, you’re going to be sadly disappointed. True ministers are not necessarily perfect ministers; they’re just people who have good fruit in their lives. When we’re looking for people to minister to us, we shouldn’t waste our time looking for people who are perfect. We should simply look for “trees” who have good fruit that we want to eat. Look for godly people who demonstrate a healthy measure of the nature of Jesus. Look for people who are bearing fruit that you need in your own life. Look for people who are actively dealing with any bad fruit in their own lives — people who desire transformation and are humbly submitted to the Holy Spirit for continual transformation.

    As you probably know, I’m a huge fan of the miraculous. I love to see God’s power and love in action. I love being in meetings where most or all of the people experience physical healing. I love witnessing miraculous signs from God. Even the “weird stuff” God does is fascinating to me. But for all the value I place on those things, I’m an even bigger fan of people producing good spiritual fruit.

    If you encounter a miraculous sign — whether it’s something you can find happening in biblical history or something completely new — look to where it is pointing. If you can find Jesus standing there, then it’s a great sign. If others are missing the purpose of the sign, help point it out. Don’t let yourself become distracted by the sign itself — the sign pointing to Disney Land is nowhere near as fun as the actual Disney Land! And finally, no matter how wonderful the sign is, don’t take it as an automatic endorsement of the minister behind it. …

    I’m sharing this just because these pieces stood out for me as I read. Some or even most of the two pages read very well. I’d say, too, there are apparent contradictions… internally and in comparison with the real world. For instance, you can see just from what I’ve quoted that you can’t always trust people even if you’re a loving person. Also, if websites shouldn’t call out heresy this website also shouldn’t lump together sites that warn about the NAR and call them things like sons of the devil (whatever synonyms are used). And then there’s the “witch-hunt” dance — let’s not forget America, via a huge swath of the white Christian vote, gave us Donald Trump (who they tout as a man of God and a victim and so on). Not everyone should be protected.

  20. let’s not forget America, via a huge swath of the white Christian vote, gave us Donald Trump (who they tout as a man of God and a victim and so on).

    And I suspect the majority of that white Christian vote came from people who have no idea what the NAR is -but are just everyday, non-Pentecostal church goers.

  21. Most of the articles I find about Paula White call her a televangelist or a prosperity preacher/theologian or pastor. She is often called Trump’s personal spiritual advisor, counselor, or pastor. Other words are sometimes included — motivational speaker, megachurch leader, charismatic, etc. These people (charismatics, Pentecostals, NAR, and such) are considered “evangelical.” Paula white “vouched” for Donald being a believer, and other evangelicals (of the Dobson and Falwell sort) jumped on board. Most followers probably don’t know anything about NAR. Rather than not consort with a man “called” a brother who is horrid, the leaders just wanted that switch flipped to where they could say they were supporting and promoting a Christian. He, like the wealth preachers, call investigations into his sketchy activities witch hunts. Many Christians have been told to be nice and not judge; that works well for the movers-and-shakers.

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