59 thoughts on “Return of the Last Trump: the self fulfilling prophet?

  1. https://www.economist.com/news/asia/21721148-military-action-against-north-may-or-may-not-be-table-and-aircraft-carrier-may-or-may
    Asia Apr 22nd 2017 | SEOUL

    America first frightens South Korea, then tries to reassure it ……

    If Mr Trump’s new policy is to sow confusion and roil the region, in short, it is working well. Otherwise, it’s a mess.

    August 11, 2017, 9:21 PM CDT Updated… August 12, 2017, 1:29 PM CDT

    Venezuela Slams ‘Madness’ as Trump Suggests Military Action


    Vice President Mike Pence flies to South America on Sunday, with stops planned in Colombia, Argentina and Chile over several days. On the eve of Pence’s arrival, the government of Colombia rejected Trump’s hint at intervention in a statement condemning “military measures and the use of force.”

    Trump’s comment also triggered a negative response from a fellow Republican, Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska, a member of the Armed Services Committee.

    “No, Congress obviously isn’t authorizing war in Venezuela,” Sasse, a regular critic of the president, said in a statement. ….


  2. Hi UPS, long time no see; but it seems little has changed.
    There’s a lot wrong in this country, mostly due to the paralysis caused by a weak ineffectual Prime Minister being hamstrung by right wing members of his own party.
    But I don’t need extreme right wing commentary to tell me what’s going in here, especially commentary based on the nonsensical claims being made in that article.

  3. A Look at How a Racial Theorist Tied to Mussolini & Hitler Influenced Steve Bannon
    Democracy Now!

    Lee Fang On How A Little-Known U.S. Libertarian Think Tank Is Remaking Latin American Politics
    Democracy Now!

  4. I posted the following a couple days ago, then didn’t see it as awaiting moderation… tried again and got an automatic message that it was a duplicate post. But it somehow dropped off the planet. I think there’s a bug in the programming that didn’t allow any additional post (after the one at 11:58 on the 13th). Okay, I just now tried again, and it still didn’t work. I’m going to try breaking it into parts.

    “Unite the Right” Demonstration: Trump doesn’t stand up to Putin or alt-right/white supremacists.

    Jana Winter, Elias Groll, Foreign Policy
    Aug. 11, 2017, 9:54 AM


    The seven-page document, which eventually landed on the president’s desk, precipitated a crisis that led to the departure of several high-level NSC officials tied to former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn. The author of the memo, Rich Higgins, who was in the strategic planning office at the NSC, was among those recently pushed out.

    The full memo [embedded], dated May 2017, is titled “POTUS & Political Warfare.”


    The memo is part of a broader political struggle inside the White House between current National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster and alt-right operatives …


    … the memo had been working its way through the Trump White House. Among those who received the memo, according to two sources, was Donald Trump Jr.

    Trump Jr., at that time in the glare of media scrutiny around his meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower during the presidential campaign, gave the memo to his father, who gushed over it, according to sources.

    In a comedy of errors, Trump later learned from Sean Hannity, the Fox News host and close friend of the president, that the memo’s author had been fired. Trump was “furious,” the senior administration official said. “He is still furious.”


  5. http://fox8.com/2017/08/12/hundreds-face-off-ahead-of-white-nationalist-rally-local-emergency-declared/




    Organizer Jason Kessler, along with others behind the rally, including Richard Spencer, plan to hold a press conference this afternoon [Sunday].

    “The blame for today’s violence is primarily the result of the Charlottesville government officials and the law enforcement officers which failed to maintain law and order by protecting the First Amendment rights of the participants of the ‘Unite the Right’ rally,” Kessler told NBC 29 in Charlottesville, Va. Reporter and anchor Henry Graff, posted the statement to his twitter account Sunday morning.


    Blogger Jason Kessler [was] escorted by law enforcement into a police station to avoid protesters. Video of the incident shows Kessler running with a police officer from an angry mob that heckled him, including a man who accused him of being responsible for the death of a woman killed during the anti-racism protests Saturday.

    Kessler briefly made remarks [Sunday] before he fled, criticizing the people who were booing him.

    He posted a video on social media saying police and city officials were responsible for the violence at Saturday’s rally, and criticized them for how they handled Sunday’s news conference.


  6. I’ve seen this man speaking well in this time of need; he’s been in the news (many shows/channels/internet outlets), as would be expected of the mayor for a city where shocking demonstrations, death, and injury have occurred. But I didn’t know some of the things in this article… for instance that there were people who denounced him, as a Jew, over and over this past weekend (I didn’t see him going around saying that, while he must have shared it at some point) — besides harassing him before that for doing his job. It’s instructive to contrast a protest organizer who complained about not having free speech (which he did have), and ran from people saying “boo” (with police caring for him), to a man rather being taunted with “Jew” and the like.

    CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (JTA) — Michael Signer, the Jewish mayor of Charlottesville, has one thing in common with the white supremacists who descended on his southern Virginia city over the weekend: He also opposed the removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee.

    Of course, Signer’s reasons for preserving the statue would have appalled the supremacists: He agreed with local African-American activists who had argued that preserving the statue was a means of teaching Virginians about the horrors of a “dishonorable” cause, the Confederacy.

    Signer was on the losing side of a 3-2 City Council decision, and the statue is now slated for removal. But his thoughtful approach, more typical of an academic than a politician, has also been evident in his counsel during the rash of protests that have plagued this city: “Don’t take the bait,” he has said.

    In giving that advice, Signer has noted that for the first time in his life, he has been the target of intense baiting as a Jew.


    In a January speech declaring Charlottesville “a capital of the resistance,” Signer described his grandfather as a “Jewish kid raised in the Bronx” who was “part of the forces that liberated the world from Nazism and fascism, that laid the groundwork for NATO and the Marshall Plan, and for a country that lived up to the promises of the Statue of Liberty. …

    “If he were alive right now, I don’t think I could look him in the face and say Grandpa, I didn’t fight for the values you fought for.”


    … The rally included Nazi flags, chants of “Jews will not replace us,” and shouts of “Jew” every time a speaker mentioned Signer’s name.

    “Look at the campaign he ran,” the mayor said on CNN.

    Signer elaborated on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” saying of Trump, “I think they made a choice in that campaign, a very regrettable one, to really go to people’s prejudices, to go to the gutter.”

    Signer’s tactic has been to organize countering events that celebrate Charlottesville’s diversity, prompting Mark Pitcavage, the senior research fellow at the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism, to say on Twitter that Signer “gets it.”

    Speaking in May on “State of Belief,” a radio show produced by the Interfaith Alliance, Signer said it was more productive to focus on the victim than the perpetrator.

    “You’re trying to ease the pain of someone who’s been afflicted rather than focus on the harasser,” he said.

    He also described the unfamiliar sensation of being in the position of the afflicted, barraged as he was with online assaults from anti-Semites as the Lee statue issue was put before the council. One tweet, from the account of someone calling themselves Great Patriot Trump, read “I smell Jew. If so, you are going back to Israel. But you will not stay in power here. Not for long.”

  7. Hi Ones,

    Not a member of the extreme right although I find their commentary far more logical than the godless left.

    Zero Hedge isn’t far right anyway. They are more of a libertarian site than right or left.

    I personally subscribe to no political ideology whatsoever and have deregistered from voting years ago.

    BTW Marlena,

    Jason Kessler was a plant. He was an Obama supporter as late as November 2016 and only switched sides to instigate what happened in Charlottesville VA.


    REPORT: White Supremacist Leader in Charlottesville Jason Kessler Was Obama Supporter – Occupy Protester


    Just one more reason to be highly suspicious of any political party and this only furthers my resolve to never vote again as long as I live on Gods green earth.

    Peace to you both.


  8. PS:

    If I was forced to vote as it is in Aus., I would vote for a write in candidate in every election with the following:

    “I vote for the physical return of the Lord Jesus Christ to dash the nations to pieces (all of them) with a rod of iron and to grind His enemies (all of them) to powder.”

    And I really wouldn’t care about any consequences as all they can do is kill the body.

  9. http://www.news-press.com/story/news/2017/08/14/mann-time-change-robert-e-lees-portrait-courthouse/564546001/

    Aug. 15, 2017
    For decades, the stern countenance of Robert E. Lee, dressed in the gray uniform he wore as a general of Confederate forces in the Civil War, has stared down on all who have attended Lee County commission meetings.

    Now one member of the commission says it is time to recognize Lee’s career and his work to unify the nation after the war by retiring the portrait in uniform and replacing it with a painting from his postbellum career as a university president.

    Honoring Lee’s tenure as leader of an army at war with the United States is unpopular with members of the community who see the portrait as a symbol of slavery and racial prejudice that is no longer tolerable.

    Commissioner Frank Mann issued the call Monday for removing the portrait of Lee in his gray uniform of the war and replacing it with one of Lee in his role as president of Washington College, now Washington and Lee University.


  10. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/white-nationalists-reportedly-plan-rally-in-lexington/ar-AAqamsw?OCID=ansmsnnews11

    LOUISVILLE — In the wake of this weekend’s rally in Charlottesville, Va., white nationalists reportedly plan to gather in Lexington to oppose the planned removal of Confederate statues.

    Matthew Heimbach, chairman of the Traditionalist Worker Party, who is no stranger to Kentucky, told the Lexington Herald-Leader people in the area asked his group to get involved. He said the goal is to have the rally “sooner rather than later.”

    Lexington Mayor Jim Gray announced after Saturday’s rally that he intends to take action to relocate the city’s Confederate statues. The white supremacist groups that gathered Saturday were drawn at least in part to the city by a vote to sell a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee.

    Lexington’s City Council went on to vote unanimously Tuesday….


    [Heimbach] was charged with harassment with physical contact [of a woman last year during a pro-candidate Trump rally] and initially entered a not guilty plea but last month entered an Alford plea, which allows the defendant to plead guilty while maintaining their innocence.

    Attempts by the Courier-Journal Tuesday to reach Heimbach on social media accounts were not immediately successful.

    The New York Times reported Monday that the Traditionalist Worker Party strives to create a grass-roots movement of white nationalists. The group has organized on behalf of disaffected coal miners and those affected by the opioid epidemic, the Times reported.

  11. http://abcnews.go.com/US/us-military-service-chiefs-condemn-racism-stand-military/story?id=49250803
    The heads of the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps have weighed in on Twitter in the wake of last weekend’s violent clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia, condemning racism and standing up for military values.

    It is rare for the nation’s top military leaders to weigh in on political events…


    Donald Trump said he’s disbanding two advisory groups of American business leaders, after CEOs quit this week as the president faced blowback for failing to sufficiently condemn white supremacists.
    Trump made the announcement on Twitter, less than an hour after one of the groups was said to be planning to inform the White House that it would break up.

    “Rather than putting pressure on the business people of the Manufacturing Council & Strategy & Policy Forum, I am ending both. Thank you all!” Trump said on Twitter.

    His remarks were a reversal of what he said a day before, when he tweeted that he had plenty of CEOs who wanted to be on the panels to replace those who quit, and called the CEOs who left “grandstanders.”
    Trump appeared to be making an effort to get ahead of the news as the councils began to disintegrate.


  12. Here is Trump as one who would gladly, or devoid of conscience or shame, incite… again.


    He did this yesterday (Tuesday), after he included mention of the young woman who was killed by a plowing vehicle and her mother (who said something positive about what he’d said on Monday — his tepid attempt to please people who aren’t racist). But he didn’t say either one of their names; he was mostly claiming that he was handling everything well and that those who don’t praise him are bad.

  13. more of a libertarian site

    Probably the worst of the lost – hardly different from anarchists – basically lawlessness.
    Like Ronald Reagan, believing that government is the problem.

  14. There isn’t the option of a “write in candidate” in Australian politics.

    But many people post blank ballot papers or make alterations. As long as they attend the polling station and have themselves registered as attending, no one would know whether they had actually submitted a valid vote or not.

    In our state elections I’ve always voted for the same person, the local incumbent, who has continued to be a good local member of parliament. However she recently retired. In the next election I’ll assess the candidates and will base my vote on those candidates.

  15. Honoring Lee’s tenure as leader of an army at war with the United States is unpopular with members of the community

    That’s an aspect of the American civil war that I only recently became aware of – that honouring those southern civil war leaders is actually honouring enemies of the USA. It would be unthinkable to give such an honour to enemy leaders of other wars.

  16. he tweeted that he had plenty of CEOs who wanted to be on the panels to replace those who quit,

    Could it get to the stage where Trump’s presidency becomes untenable because no one will be willing to work with him?
    If so will it mean the end for “President” Trump? Or will it lead to him doubling down and becoming more the dictator?

    Sadly there are always those who’ll go along with anything if it gives them a place at the political table – no matter what poison the chef is serving up.

  17. Rumors abound on white nationalist forums that Kessler’s ideological pedigree before 2016 was less than pure and seem to point to … [ye’old let’s blame Obama (as the right portrays it).*]

    …. Those speaking at the Charlottesville “Unite the Right” event include Richard Spencer, who spoke at the first Charlottesville rally, Mike Enoch of The Right Stuff, Matthew Heimbach of the white nationalist Traditionalist Workers Party, Augustus Invictus, a pagan neo-fascist who has pledged to bring about a second Civil War, and Michael Hill of the League of the South.

    * Me, Marleen, speaking: I personally know right wingers who, in looking at the serious mess “G.W.” put us in, said things like, “What the hell, give a black man a chance.” They voted for him (while still being racist), and the economy did recover (on the usual surface level). And things went on pretty much as normal — but they hated him anyway. Yet, they had made themselves feel better and could say they voted for the black man (couldn’t be racist). And then they proceeded to enthusiastically vote for Trump (after Romney). I’m not sure it is clear Kessler was for Obama, but maybe he was a “plant” then — at the demonstrations in New York.

    The above quotation was opportunistically the full extent (except for my insertion of “…” for maybe two and a half sentences) used for another right wing site. But here is the full SPC article:

  18. Marleen, you noted that:

    Donald Trump said he’s disbanding two advisory groups of American business leaders, after CEOs quit this week as the president faced blowback for failing to sufficiently condemn white supremacists.
    Trump made the announcement on Twitter, less than an hour after one of the groups was said to be planning to inform the White House that it would break up.(my emphasis- onesimus)

    My friend Chris pointed the following out to me in an email this morning:

    Pence … said today he agreed with Trump’s remarks. Even worse is this:

    Not a single member of Trump’s Evangelical Council has resigned. We have learned corporate America has a greater moral compass.

    As I replied to Chris, isn’t that a clear indictment of American evangelicalism?

  19. More on Jason Kessler in his own words. He was a plant to stir up trouble for the deep state.

    Jason Kessler Authored Anarchist & Anti-Christian Poetry

    But regarding the American Civil War.

    The civil war was about States rights embodied in the US Constitution and had very little to do with the practice of chattel slavery, which by the way was also practiced by ancient Israel and spoken of at length in the Old Testament law and prophets.

    Also, the large tribes in Africa were responsible participants in the smaller tribes being captured and sent to the New World so they could expropriate (steal) their land. You won’t read that in history class however.

    Nor will you read in history class that many of the ships which transported the slaves to the New World were owned by Jewish men. Or I should say, those who say they are.

  20. A clear, level headed, un-emotional commentary on what happened in Charlottesville.

    “No One Gave Peace A Chance, Including The Police” – John Whitehead Warns “We’re Walking A Dangerous Road”


    And to be clear, I reject both sides of the violence and refuse to be involved in politics of any kind.

    Only the return of Christ will set the madness and lies straight in any nation or the world in general when He dashes them to pieces with the rod of iron.

    It can’t come soon enough.

  21. So you’re now an apologist for slavery. And should I bring to your attention the implicit anti-Semitism in your highlighting of “Jewish men”.
    Why the particular mention of them?

  22. Beware of being too eager to see anyone dashed “to pieces with a rod of iron”.

    Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord!
    For what good is the day of the Lord to you?
    It will be darkness, and not light.

    It will be as though a man fled from a lion,
    And a bear met him!
    Or as though he went into the house,
    Leaned his hand on the wall,
    And a serpent bit him!

  23. Finally, if we are to condemn the practice of chatel slavery in the US prior to the civil war, we must also condemn the practice of it in ancient Israel. Which by the way, I don’t think we should as it was regulated by Old Testament law.

    There were abuses of it, which Jeremiah condemned but regarding the Canaanites, they were fortunate to be slaves rather than to be exterminated as God commanded Israel to do.

    Joshua 9:23 Now therefore, you are cursed, and none of you shall be freed from being slaves–woodcutters and water carriers for the house of my God.”

    And if we are to condemn the extreme right AKA Nazis, we must also condemn the extreme left AKA Communists. God is no respecter of persons and neither should we be.

  24. An apologist for slavery and an apologist for neo-Nazism.
    You should apply for a position in Trump’s White House.

    God is no respecter of injustice, lawlessness or any other kind of unrighteousness.

  25. Hey, so Jason Kessler believes in himself and not love. So, there’s that. (It was readable, by the way, at the article I shared on him — and his antics this last weekend — that he’s written weird stuff.)

    Here’s another guy who it’s pretty convoluted to figure out what he stands for other than Trump or the party. This incident happened almost exactly a week ago; slightly prophetic.

    Oh. I almost forgot about this. I’m not sure how comprehensive it is.

    I have another link I’m going to try again to post. (I think it was the actual hang-up earlier, when I was trying to post; it never did get through. Hopefully, it will be next.)

  26. Several more interesting commentaries and one from the unlikeliest of places.


    [Link removed due to misogynistic and pornographic material in sidebar – onesimus]

    Black Pastor Rips ‘Left Wing Media’ To Shreds: – The Seeds Of Truth Are Being Sown Into The Media Lies, And They Are Not Happy About It


  27. Thank you for that clip from FOX, Onesimus! I just saw that man on CNN tonight.

    (I can’t get the other link to post. Do you still have the Yahoo email address, Onesimus? Maybe if I send it to you you can decide if it’s worthwhile at all and get it to post yourself.)

  28. From the remaining link posted by UPS (the one without the pornographic material):

    only one side planned to committ violence at the rally. He was 100 percent right to call them out.

    Firstly only one side committed murder.
    Secondly the side planning to commit violence – the side that was clubbing others, spraying them pepper spray, battering people with flaming torches – was the same side that was responsible for the murder. It was the side that should have been condemned by Trump instead of him trying to blur the boundaries of blame.

    Trying to excuse or justify violence that led to murder is not acceptable. I have to wonder why UPS thinks it is acceptable not to condemn it, or to try an water it down by “spreading the blame”.

  29. That allnewspipeline is a janky site, for more than one reason. But I’ll just share that I clicked on a word the way I do with solid sites to get more information, and all it did was go to a series of unrelated adds — and probably malware. But as for Darrell Scott, he is not a reputable pastor even if “prominent” to some people. He is, apparently, esteemed among Trump operatives. That’s not great praise.

  30. Hi Marleen,
    the survivalist adds are also a clue about the quality of that website – but having removed one link from the unprofitable one because of its side content, I chose (possibly unwisely) to leave the second. It’s something I’ll be reconsidering.

  31. letter from William and Warren Christian, the great, great grandsons of Confederate Gen. Stonewall Jackson to Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney and Members of the Monument Avenue Commission.

    Dear Mayor Stoney and Members of the Monument Avenue Commission,

    We are native Richmonders and also the great, great grandsons of Stonewall Jackson. As two of the closest living relatives to Stonewall, we are writing today to ask for the removal of his statue, as well as the removal of all Confederate statues from Monument Avenue. They are overt symbols of racism and white supremacy, and the time is long overdue for them to depart from public display.

    complete letter here:

  32. Oh. I wasn’t saying it should be removed. Just warning people.
    I guess one that you did remove was the one with the video
    of Kessler talking about himself and then reading a bit
    of his “poetry” (apparently mostly on being atheist).
    Even though I had seen, in the article on him I shared,
    that he wrote poetry and I think a novel, I wasn’t interested
    very much in that aspect (not enough to look into it). But I did watch
    the video itself (didn’t look at anything around it or any additional videos).
    I haven’t figured out, though, why UpS was sharing it. And I never did see evidence
    for what was being claimed on Kessler other than the obvious. I see he’s selfish and supremacist.

  33. There was a link I removed that led to an article on a site that had very objectionable material in its side bar: photos of semi-naked women with derogatory inferences being made. I try to be careful about links I allow to remain on this blog. To a degree that relies on trust because I don’t have the time or opportunity to check everything in detail when links are posted in the comments section.
    But with new commenters, or those I’ve had issues with in the past, I have to be more diligent if they post links.

  34. This link below was further information from the SPLC (which I accidentally called SPC) that I was happy to find from the page about the individual, Jason Kessler. This is well explained and important.


    I want to mention that if you link off to other sites from there, you might find a certain type of designation. If you see a word or term or phrase with triple brackets or parentheses, it’s signaling “Jews.”

  35. http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_maddow_cscumbags_170817
    No nazi scumbags allowed in the US military —
    Rachel Maddow rounds up some of the military-related stories in the news,
    including the U.S. service chiefs speaking out in condemnation of racism and hate,
    and notes that in the U.S. military it is illegal to be a nazi scumbag. Duration: 15:53

    Trump Donor Erik Prince Wants His Mercenaries To Take Over Afghanistan War
    The Young Turks

  36. About the porn ads.

    I have an ad blocker installed so I don’t see any ads on any site I visit.

    You should consider one. AdFender is a very good free one.

  37. Ones,

    It’s clear due to your viewpoint that you don’t care about being influenced by the leaven of Herod which is why you spew the official narrative of the MSM instead of the truth that ALL violence is evil.

    There are videos on YouTube showing that it was the unpermitted “AntiFa” protesters that started hitting people with clubs. Don’t look at them though, it may spoil your one-sided MSM narrative..

    Hitler killed 6 million.

    Stalin killed 60 million.

    Mao killed 100 million…

    What I’m saying is ALL violence and ALL murder is evil in the eyes of God, NOT some…

    Read into it and make all the false accusations you will.

  38. Regarding the comment about Reagan stating that government is the problem.

    He was absolutely correct however he didn’t state it forcefully enough.

    Samuel has that honor.

    1 Samuel 8:5-7 5 and said to him, “Look, you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.” 6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” So Samuel prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.

    Wanting men to rule over us instead of God alone is absolutely evil and unneeded for for a truly God fearing people.

    Even Paul said.

    1 Corinthians 7:23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.

  39. Rachel Maddow is a lesbian communist and no good source of info for anyone who calls themselves a follower of Christ.

  40. And Ones,

    The Lord rebuke you to your face for your false accusations against me.

    I oppose ALL lies and am for ALL truth regardless of the source.

    Unfortunately, I can’t say the same about you.

    Enjoy your echo chamber, I won’t be back or commenting here again.

    Open his eyes Lord, open his eyes!

  41. UPS, in answer to your string of comments.

    Regarding the comment about Reagan stating that government is the problem.

    He was absolutely correct however he didn’t state it forcefully enough.

    The Samuel quote you gave is addressed to one specific people (Israel) at one specific time (when they asked for a King). It is not directed at the nations. Scripture elsewhere makes it clear that GOD established earthly governments – but clearly Reagan knew better than God – and you know better than both God and Reagan.

    With an attitude like that you would easily idolise the man of lawlessness.

    Rachel Maddow is a lesbian communist and no good source of info for anyone who calls themselves a follower of Christ.

    Whether she is a lesbian* I wouldn’t know, but I DO know how Americans have been so brainwashed from the days of McCarthy, that the term “communist” has become meaningless when they use it. “Communists” have become the American political bogeymen – used to scare a timid population into submission to a political system based on the worship of mammon.
    By America’s McCarthyist definition, the majority of the world’s governments could be labelled “communist” no matter how right-wing they may be.

    I can even recall someone on an American Christian forum believed that the Nazis were communist.

    The Lord rebuke you to your face

    How many times over the years have you called on the Lord to do that to me?

    Enjoy your echo chamber, I won’t be back or commenting here again.

    Unprofitable one. Most blog owners would block you from their blogs and wouldn’t allow any of your rants. Every time you come back I allow you to have your say, hoping that you’ve turned away from your extremism. Sadly, each time you return that proves NOT to be the case. And every time you return you break your earlier assertion that you won’t be back.


    *1 Corinthians 5

  42. Homosexuality isn’t the only sin on earth. It isn’t even the only one with a potential penalty of death, and it’s not the most prominent around. It’s just one the self-righteous want to harp on. We have to deal with the fact that sinners provide news — including from the favorites of the right wing or fascists or insane (or evil — take your pick), including from Drudge and InfoWars and FOX and on and on.

    Get an add blocker to keep the porn out of view? So someone concerned about sin isn’t concerned about a “news source” that gets add money from pornography? Impressive (not).

    So true, Onesimus, that much in the Bible is about Israel (real Israel, geographically for one thing). We are not called to go around putting adulterers and sodomites [a specific act] to death. [By the way, the Bible says those who don’t provide for people to whom they are responsible are worse than infidels, so men can’t go around racking up the partners because the Bible didn’t blatantly limit them.]

    And as for “the sin of Sodom” — the Bible (in Ezekiel) says they were well off but didn’t help the needy. [Again, this isn’t an excuse to demand fealty to get help, it’s just about caring.]

  43. And as for “the sin of Sodom” — the Bible (in Ezekiel) says they were well off but didn’t help the needy.

    Marleen, that’s the part that gets ignored.
    The hoarding of wealth at the expense of the needy is the actual sin that God accounts to Sodom.

    Professing Christians seem to take comfort in singling out homosexuals for condemnation, but are not so vocal in condemning the love of riches. It’s easy to condemn someone for a sin that “we” aren’t involved with – but much harder to look closely at serious sin sitting close to home.

    Jesus said it’s impossible to serve two masters and gave the example that both God and mammon (riches) can’t be served. If we serve the latter we can’t serve God. If we don’t; serve God there are consequences – many of which are detailed in Romans 1.
    And taking those consequences into account it seems to me that the homosexuality in Sodom would have been a “side effect” or symptom of their attitude to their wealth.

  44. I do believe that societies or situations that cater to or hold to hoarding (among other things, like child abuse or neglect… or disrespect of women) lead to societies of additional perversion.

  45. I have to make a clarification. InfoWars and Drudge are not news.
    And FOX often isn’t news and often isn’t honest. But one can get some news from FOX.

    Whatever source, one has to evaluate what is being said.

    And I find it disingenuous for an outlet to say
    Since SPLC quoted online rumors, therefore the rumors are fact.
    It is fact that there are rumours. It’s helpful to know what’s going on with those SPLC evaluates.

    Another clarification: I noticed in a supremacist tweet that triple parentheses were used for someone who I am only aware of as Muslim. It’s possible that he is both of Jewish and of Muslim background, I don’t really know (on him). It’s also possible that the triple brackets and parentheses sometimes mean “Semite” in a more general sense (for either Jews or Muslims). I don’t say that to endorse their use this way (either of these two way — “this way” meaning as a code signal); in say it only to inform. When they are used this way, you can know you’re at a racist site. But they’re not always used at racist sites, and there are other ways to know. Since last week, by the way, many people have probably seen that Bannon has left the white house and is going back to Breitbart. Breitbart [not the man, as he is dead] on Friday tried to claim they aren’t alt-right, although they are. What has been less reported is that a major paper said on Thursday that they’re not going to use the label alt-right any more… they’re going ahead and saying racist or supremacist and things like that.

  46. And, for the record: I Corinthians 7….

    21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22 For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings. 24 Brothers and sisters, each person, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.

    Concerning the Unmarried
    25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife.


  47. http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_joy_trumpisolated_170820
    AM JOY 8/20/17
    Trump’s job rating below 40% in three key states —
    Joy Reid is joined by Donald Trump supporter Ken Abramowitz and more to discuss how the president appears to be more isolated than ever in the wake of his latest Charlottesville comments. Duration: 14:24

    AM JOY 8/20/17
    Who’s the conspiracy theorist once retweeted by Trump?

    Jack Posobiec has a long history of being an ‘agent provocateur,’ as our guest describes him – one who has had his security clearance suspended. Duration: 9:03

    AM JOY 8/20/17
    Is Russia using the Alt-Right to undermine U.S. democracy?

    After GOP Rep. Dana Rohrabacher posed with an Alt-Righter when meeting with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, our guests tell Joy Reid Russia could be manipulating fringe political actors. Duration: 8:27

  48. This is one of those passages that could benefit by removing (non-original) numbers and punctuation.

    I Corinthians [7]….

    Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you… although, if you can gain your freedom, do so. For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person. Similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave; you were bought at a price. Do not become slaves of human beings. Brothers and sisters, each person, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation they were in when God called them. Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife.


  49. You know, it just dawned on me that the above (further quotation which I gave to show context so readers might see that not enslaving oneself is not about denying such thing as government) can be taken very differently than I was seeing it. I didn’t see the possibility of this other take at first because I didn’t (don’t) see myself as subservient to a church. But I suppose someone could say the virgins (or quasi-virgins) are priests and nuns… rather than that this was a statement of practicality having to do with the time. So maybe “someone” is onboard with Catholicism seeing itself as above the law (and Jesus buying anyone who believes in him — their type of him — for them). But look at history for hundreds of years and even in the last century. [I don’t say this to put down anyone who grew up Catholic and experiences faith, just that they aren’t “it.”]

    Anyway, there are many ways not to subjugate oneself. Don’t sign nondisclosure agreements with someone like Mr. Trump (or anyone else). Don’t sign away rights in order to get a job or do much of anything (for instance signing away normal access to courts or free speech with a disadvantage for oneself to another as if that someone is superior to yourself or in naivete that there is nothing for you to lose). To individual or corporation or supposed spiritual entity, no need to give yourself away. [This isn’t something I would have addressed in this thread, Onesimus. And I know you recently started a thread in a similar vein. But this, like I said, just came up because of noticing what some words could mean to someone.]

  50. I see that the YouTube offering posted above is no longer working. While I am able to link over from the prior post directly to the site with the interview of Pastor Bernard, here is another way to see it:
    And here is an article on the same topic.

    Former Antifa organizer and former neo-Nazi talk protests
    Aug. 18, 2017 – 4:51 – Insight about the movements on ‘The Story’

    Above is an attempt to focus on AntiFa as the real problem in Virginia.
    Understand, first of all, that FOX is known to show pictures that don’t go with the story. So I’m not sure what they are showing while the woman follows her marching instructions [what FOX is also known for generally] to be alarmed about the people who didn’t kill or injure anyone in Virginia. Know, also, that the counter-protesters have been credited with defending/protecting innocent people, including clergy, in the situation near the R.E. Lee statue and the church where some citizens had gathered. Since when have conservatives been against defense? Maybe the only thing to stand up for is defense when a white man (or probably white woman too) “stands ground” with a gun? In response to the agitators (the neo-Nazis, etc.) showing up with guns (I do think that was known ahead of time) and not being peaceful (while, thankfully, they didn’t shoot anyone), the ACLU has determined they will no longer advocate for demonstrators who will bring guns and intimidate.

  51. Sometimes that FOX piece plays, and sometimes it doesn’t. It did play just now when I tested it again. (I don’t know why it’s been irregular.) I’ll describe it some, because it is significant that both of the men in the joint interview segment from the host’s show used to be involved in the named activities (each respectively and encountering the other), and both agree that the Nazi or white supremacist/alt-right side are actually interested in violence. That side see violence as a way of life, those involved in that side are a threat to lives (on the other “side” as well as more broadly — beyond sides, and more with regard to lack* of respect for life and rights). Both men nod, and do not affirm the host’s aim.

    * Lack, or active withholding of said respect.

    A last mention… the fact that the “Unite the Right” people sought and obtained a permit does not mean that they abided by the terms of their permit. In fact, they did not comply. Additionally, the presence of a group with a permit does not then preclude other people from normal uses in town. For example, there’s no reason the folks who had gathered in the church should have needed to fear for their safety.

    And there is certainly no rationalizing deadly road rage, or what it really was — terrorism.

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