15
Nov
16

Judged By a Higher Standard


A respected bible teacher I’ve mentioned recently has sent me four or five emails over the past day, but has now declared the “conversation is over”.

 

An earlier email from him had started with a reference to a Hillary Clinton quote he’d sent to me previously. The quote was a word for word transcript taken from a video he had promoted, a video I examined here: https://onesimusfiles.wordpress.com/2016/10/12/a-lesson-in-deception-and-manipulation/

 

He said: “Onesimus I have given you the quote, of the leading proponent of “women’s Health”(Abortion) in America, and of the leading Champion of LGBtY”Rights”, (Sexual anarchy) demanding that Religions must change their tenants(sic) in order to accommodate …”

 

From his endorsement of that video and his subsequent correspondence with me, it is clear that he has no interest at all in addressing the fact that he and the video totally misrepresent what Clinton actually said in that quote (see my reply to him below).

To me that is a gross act of dishonesty that he clearly supports. He insists on projecting his own meaning onto Clinton’s quote, based on his own prejudice against her. That can be seen by his redefining of “women’s health” as “abortion”.

 

If he can justify such a manipulation of what is clearly said to mean something entirely unrelated to the words actually spoken – what does that say about the way he teaches the Bible? If someone can’t be trusted to accurately report on something spoken in clear and simple terms, how can they be trusted to teach his followers about the meaning of scripture?

 

My last email to him addressed the video and the quote he had used from it.

[bible teacher] said:

here is verbatim one of the many Hillary quotes-

Far too many women are denied access to reproductive health care and safe childbirth, and laws don’t count for much if they’re not enforced,” Clinton said.“Rights have to exist in practice — not just on paper. Laws have to be backed up with resources and political will. And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed. As I have said and as I believe, the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business of the 21st century and not just for women but for everyone — and not just in far away countries but right here in the United States.”

 

I replied:

Yes she said that, I quoted it on my blog – but the video you took it from totally distorts the meaning of what she actually said, as it seems you are also doing, by making assumptions about the intention of the quote.

As I said on my blog and in a comment on your site, the reference to changing religious beliefs could include things like female “circumcision” as practiced by some strands of Islam, or Roman Catholic attitudes to birth control, both of those clearly fit into the category of “reproductive health care and safe childbirth”.

 

You also quote Clinton correctly with: “I believe, the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business of the 21st century”

This is totally different to what is claimed in the video immediately after showing the short clip that you have quoted “verbatim”.
The presenter of the video excitedly claims:

““Did you see that? Did you notice that she said that the change of Christian beliefs is the unfinished business of the 20th Century? This means that she wants to persecute Christians.”

Can you see anything even resembling that claim in what Clinton actually said? Or is that claim by the presenter an absolute lie?

And as for the rest of the video and the other sensationalist lies it presents as truth; where does Clinton demand that believers: “Kneel and deny your Christian faith”?

Where does she say “CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA MUST DENY THEIR FAITH IN CHRISTIANITY”?

And how is YOUR link caption “Christians must change their Religion” in any way a true expression of anything Clinton ACTUALLY says in that video, as opposed to what deceivers CLAIM she says, as noted above?

The election is over. The next president has been chosen. So what’s the point of going over all of this again?

To me the issue hasn’t been the election or the choice of a president.
My concern has always been related to the messages being given by people who profess to be Christians or evangelicals, particularly when those messages involve outright falsehoods.

When those falsehoods are being supported and promoted by so-called Christian leadership I see even more need for concern.

My early Christian faith was severely compromised when I fell for false teaching. I almost lost that faith completely, and it took a long route to regain and rebuild it on a sounder foundation. Those false teachings were theological – and I’ve spent many years since regaining my faith trying to help people avoid my theological mistakes. However the problems don’t always have their foundation in questionable theology and doctrine. No less important is the matter of character, of integrity and of a desire to know, live and proclaim THE TRUTH.

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28 Responses to “Judged By a Higher Standard”


  1. November 15, 2016 at 12:45 pm

    When we feel strongly about something THEN is the time for caution – it is so easy to give into the temptation to support our strongly held point of view by either bending the truth a little, or by being selective with the available facts.
    Just as support for a favoured doctrine can be “strengthened” by a careful vetting of scripture. Only quoting the parts that seem favourable and omitting those parts that contradict a desired stance.

    Also its easy for our strong feelings to blind us to what’s really there in front of us, allowing us to be swayed by someone who is telling us what we want to hear.

    For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but wanting to have their ears tickled they will accumulate for themselves teachers to satisfy their own desires and to support the errors they hold,

  2. 2 Marleen
    November 15, 2016 at 1:01 pm

    Yeah, well, Trump has now said gay marriage is “settled law” — and that he’s “okay with that.”

  3. 3 Jerod
    November 15, 2016 at 1:08 pm

    It wasn’t written in Braille. You’d have to be blind and deaf and mute not to be able to clearly hear what she said in the video edit, the original recording, and over the last 40 years of her career. Bill told the truth, but it is apparent that, as Jack said, “You can’t handle the truth”. This is gossip and false witness. Please stop, but I know you won’t.

  4. November 15, 2016 at 1:10 pm

    Marleen said:

    Yeah, well, Trump has now said gay marriage is “settled law” — and that he’s “okay with that.”

    Yes I saw that and was going to bring attention to it – but you beat me 🙂

    How long until he declares that abortion is settled law? He doesn’t have to pretend any more now he’s benefitted from the “evangelical” vote”

  5. November 15, 2016 at 1:14 pm

    You are right Jerod, its not written in braille and its easy to hear what she ACTUALLY said in the video. So how you can claim that Bill told the truth is well beyond my comprehension. The claims made in that video and supported by Randles, and it seem by yourself are total and complete lies.

    That excerpt of Clintons speech bears NO resemblance to the claims made about it. If THAT is the best the Clinton haters can come up with then the argument you are trying to make is not even weak. It is non-existent.

  6. 6 Marleen
    November 15, 2016 at 1:23 pm

    I have been horrified that people who claim to be pro-life (but also anti-Obama) will say, after I’ve had to point out to them that “Obamacare” specifically doesn’t allow for tax coverage of abortion, that they are angry their insurance covers maternity care!!!! “I don’t need that,” they say. (They’re like 55 years old, for instance.)

  7. November 15, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    I’m sure they wonder why they should be helping to provide for those less fortunate than themselves. That attitude seems to be the spirit of the age. The same spirit that loves lower taxation even when it comes at the cost of essential welfare benefits for those who struggle to survive without them.

  8. November 15, 2016 at 1:47 pm

    Jerod said:

    It wasn’t written in Braille. You’d have to be blind and deaf and mute not to be able to clearly hear what she said in the video edit, the original recording, and over the last 40 years of her career. Bill told the truth, but it is apparent that, as Jack said, “You can’t handle the truth”. This is gossip and false witness. Please stop, but I know you won’t.

    Now lets see the clearest (non-braille) example of what was going on in that video:

    Clinton said: “I believe, the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business of the 21st century”

    The presenter of the video tells us she said:

    “The change of Christian beliefs is the unfinished business of the 20th Century? This means that she wants to persecute Christians.”

    Jerod are you willing to admit that there is no similarity at all between those two statements? That the presenter totally misrepresents what Clinton said? Basically That he LIED?

    Could the attempted (but sadly effective) deception be any clearer? And yet, I can’t be confident about your willingness to recognise the nature of that attempted deception considering a favoured teacher of yours is willing to ignore it.

    As for “gossip and false witness” I ask you where the falsehood is. I say it is in the video and those who accept and promote it.

  9. 9 Jerod
    November 15, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    Wait.

    You’re actually defending Clinton? What about her platform are you defending?

    Here’s the quote from a Facebook post gushing about Clinton. I wanted a liberal take on it, in order that your seemingly willful stupidity would be cut short or made complete:

    https://m.facebook.com/umchildrenshome/posts/10153761891312224

    4) [Clinton] believes the religious views of others must
    change to support legal abortion.

    “Far too many women are denied access to
    reproductive health care and safe childbirth, and laws don’t count for much if they’re not enforced. Rights have to exist in practice-not just on paper,”Clinton said on April 23 at the Women in the World Summit.
    “Laws have to be backed up with resources and political will. And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs, and structural biases have to be changed.”

    Laws, resources, political will = jail, fines. Religious beliefs, cultural codes = church going Christians. These statements sweep across historical American society.
    These are bullet points under the banner of killing babies, from the former First Lady whose husband signed into law the killing of a partially birthed child by destroying its skull in the vaginal canal.

    Anyone so called Christian who would defend that needs to repent because that person has no salvation, or they are intellectually disabled.

    I hope you aren’t defending that. It sounds as though you are.

  10. November 16, 2016 at 12:03 am

    I am similarly dismayed by the seeming disregard for absolute truth that has been apparent on both sides of the election debate. I support neither candidate, but as a Christian I do support truth, and that was the first casualty in the battle for the Greatness of America. People on both sides just did not want to know if they were being misled, lied to, duped, if the reports confirmed what they already thought. (Incidentally, Google are now saying that due to the high level of fake and misleading reporting on the Internet they are going to remove advertisement funding from such websites.) But one Christian email I received today said this:

    “Well, the fat lady sang and Jezebel was cast down from her high tower, spattering blood and guts all over the pavement for the dogs to lick up. … Poor Hildabeast. The brass ring she’s worked 40+ years to grasp was at her fingertips, only to be snatched away by a neophyte with a spray-on tan and a bad comb over. Just think of all the animals sacrificed and infant blood consumed during those pot-luck, Spirit Cooking sessions she attended, in her quest for power; all wasted.”

    This is a good example of chinese whispers reporting. First it was said that John Podester was asked in an email to attend a “Spirit Cooking” meeting which was indeed being hosted by a woman we would say was into satanism judging from her “performance art” (Marina Abramovic) but as distasteful as that is, (and she denies it) the meeting was actually a private dinner party to thank donors and supporters.

    Although after the Wikileaks circulation of the email, there was no evidence John Podesta replied or accepted the invitation, nor was Hillary Clinton invited, an unconnected video emerged of Abramovic painting spells on a wall with a bucket of what looked like animal blood. (No public figure attended or was involved).

    Then stage two: the “Spirit Cooking” was “a satanic ritual”.

    After that, it escalated into “Hillary Clinton and John Podesta practice a satanic ritual known as “spirit cooking.””

    What is the TRUTH? John Podesta, whose brother asked him if he wanted to attend the dinner, did NOT attend in fact. Abramovic said that Tony’s brother, John Podesta, did not attend the event:

    “I’m outraged, because this is taken completely out of my context,” Abramovic told me (reporter) by phone this afternoon. … In fact, ***she has never met John Podesta***.

    “It was just a normal dinner,” Abramovic said, adding that about 10 people attended. “It was actually just a normal menu, which I call spirit cooking. There was no blood, no anything else. We just call things funny names, that’s all.” (The Kickstarter page advertised “traditional soups.”)

    Spirit Cooking, Abramovic explained, was a performance she staged at a number of museums around the world in the ‘90s, painting graffiti with pigs’ blood. She rejects the claim to be a satanist.

    My opinion or yours does not matter, what matters is the truth whether we like it or not. To bear false witness, to gossip and circulate gossip without making some attempt to verify it is not the behaviour of a Christian – no matter WHAT the cause. I have seen the truth twisted and abandoned so many times now that I am afraid we have lost touch altogether and our next move as a Church will be motivated either by lies or hate. NOT good!

  11. November 16, 2016 at 7:27 am

    Jerod, WHERE have I said I support Clinton?

    At the risk of being overly blunt (but restraining myself from the kind of rudeness you’ve displayed), why are you finding it so hard to read and understand a simple message that has nothing to do with Clinton?

    I have been pointing out the blindingly obvious. That video recommended by Bill Randles manipulates the viewer and presents a message that is not backed up by the evidence it gives. The way it is presented is a total lie from beginning to end.

    If there is a GENUINE case against Clinton it is NOT in that manipulative piece of evil propaganda that you (and Randles) seem so eager to defend.

    Jerod, please address the issue I’ve raised, which is the dishonesty of people who are presenting themselves as Christian but acting as deceivers.

    I note you did not address anything I said about that video, because you are too intent on continuing an anti-Clinton rant.

    But I repeat.

    Clinton and her character are not the issue I’m addressing.
    The important issue at hand is the spiritual health of professing Christians who are so filled with hostility towards Clinton that they’ll swallow anything that seems to justify their hatred.

  12. November 16, 2016 at 7:42 am

    Tricia said:

    My opinion or yours does not matter, what matters is the truth whether we like it or not. To bear false witness, to gossip and circulate gossip without making some attempt to verify it is not the behaviour of a Christian – no matter WHAT the cause. I have seen the truth twisted and abandoned so many times now that I am afraid we have lost touch altogether and our next move as a Church will be motivated either by lies or hate. NOT good!

    “What matters is the truth whether we like it or not” – I couldn’t agree more Tricia.

    Looking at the example you give, as well as the issue of the video I’ve been writing about, it seems to indicate how little regard there is for truth even among those who claim to follow Jesus.

    When the truth becomes dispensable for the sake of political ambition we are seeing the conditions becoming ripe for the arrival of the man of lawlessness. But more importantly a disregard for truth sets people (including professing Christians) up to be deceived by him.

    The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders, and with every unrighteous deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved.

    If people make themselves so susceptible now to a lying political agenda, how more susceptible would they be when “false miracles, signs, and wonders” are added to the mix?

  13. November 16, 2016 at 9:31 am

    Tricia said:

    “I have seen the truth twisted and abandoned so many times now that I am afraid we have lost touch altogether and our next move as a Church will be motivated either by lies or hate. NOT good!”

    Sadly Tricia, I think that point was passed long ago and was displayed in the extent and nature of anti-Obama rhetoric that came out of “the Church”.

    I suspect that Trump’s candidacy and eventual election as president is the fruit of what was sown by Christians. A candidate (and soon to be president) who openly mirrored the lying, hateful characteristics displayed by such a large number of Christians during the previous 8 years.

    The email you quote from shows how hatred continues to boil with parts of “the church”:

    Well, the fat lady sang and Jezebel was cast down from her high tower, spattering blood and guts all over the pavement for the dogs to lick up. …

    A far from Christ-like witness to the world.

  14. 14 Jerod
    November 16, 2016 at 9:32 am

    My post was cut short

    Apologies.

    The video extrapolated a quote from Clinton. Clinton’s quote in it’s entire does not explain away the editors comments in the video. The video is sensationalistic, I’ll give you that, but nothing it said in the video was wrong.

    As I said before

    Laws, resources, political will = jail, fines. Religious beliefs, cultural codes = church going Christians. These statements sweep across historical American society.
    These are bullet points under the banner of killing babies, from the former First Lady whose husband signed into law the killing of a partially birthed child by destroying its skull in the vaginal canal.
    REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE means ABORTION.

    You seem to defend Clinton by the intensity your vehemence at Randle’s perceived slight, and your soft approach to Clinton.

    “the video totally misrepresent what Clinton actually said in that quote (see my reply to him below).” It does not.

    “To me that is a gross act of dishonesty that he clearly supports. He insists on projecting his own meaning onto Clinton’s quote, based on his own prejudice against her. That can be seen by his redefining of “women’s health” as “abortion”.” That is not his own meaning – that is the meaning derived from all her supporters and the liberal media.

    “If he can justify such a manipulation of what is clearly said to mean something entirely unrelated to the words actually spoken – what does that say about the way he teaches the Bible?” This is just blind and deaf. Clinton meant abortion. Clinton defends PBA.

    Clinton is a Methodist who has apparently read the bible. She knows “women’s health” is as important in scripture as men’s. She is not “changing … religious beliefs” to afford women the right to safe childbirth, prenatal care, and affordable mammograms. It has to do with abortion.
    Reproducrive health care is a euphemism for ABORTION.

    You are behaving as though you don’t understand metaphors.

    Bill does not need to apologize to you on this issue. Are you the one God has chosen to tell folks the Holy Spirit does not rightly divide the word of God through him?

  15. November 16, 2016 at 9:50 am

    Jerod,
    You seem to be applying the same kind of approach to this issue as many people apply to the bible: seeing the need to re-interpret what is ACTUALLY said to make it mean what you what it to mean.

    First rule of understanding: look at the plain and simple meaning first, don’t look for meanings that aren’t there and DEFINITELY DON’T change the plain and simple meaning by redefining words to fit a predetermined agenda.

    You said the “The video extrapolated a quote from Clinton”. That is NOT what it did. The video created a scenario totally unrelated to the quote from Clinton.

    Jerod, I’ll be totally blunt again, perhaps more so than before. BY taking the route you are on you are treading on very dangerous spiritual path, one with a foundation created out of lies and hate, all to support a worldly political agenda that has absolutely nothing to do with the Kingdom of God.

  16. November 16, 2016 at 9:59 am

    For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.

    They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.

    But as for you, be serious about everything, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

    The Amplified translation adds an interesting twist to the meaning:

    …and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable]. (my emphasis – onesimus)

  17. 17 Marleen
    November 16, 2016 at 11:29 am

    Maybe what’s missing is understanding the “forty year… career” of conservative operatives. Not only abortion is abortion, contraception is abortion — and, not only that, including women is abortion, educating girls is abortion. Safe childbirth and reproductive care are abortion. This is not out of the realm of possibility, as far as the sentiments of many people. I have actually seen groups of people (calling themselves Christians) actively against truly educating girls beyond eighth grade. Imposing this on the girls is considered “religious freedom” (politically). In some sectors, that’s about as far as the strange thought goes; girls are only allowed certain roles accordingly (particularly roles at home). In some quarters, however, neglect and abuse of the girls goes further (I won’t elucidate); spreads to disregard also of the boys. At the same time, there are people at the edges of the thought bubble who aren’t quite aware of the implications. They need to do a real self assessment and step away.

    Beyond that, I recall my Messianic Rabbi sharing a story about a Muslim daughter, in a city where he used to live (somewhere in New Jersey), being grabbed by her family and mutilated (“circumcised”) after she went on a date with a boy. That’s not just an unpleasantry; it’s horrific on its own, and it is a complication to health and childbirth going forward. He was recognizing this reality. Another famous quote of Hillary’s is human rights are women’s rights and women’s rights are human rights. [I might have switched the two parts.] I want to point out, too, that questioning deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases is on its face not all about religion at all, much less about bowing down and so forth (except in reverse). I didn’t vote for her, but so what? I can be honest about her. Cultural codes: Doesn’t the whole world have these? Religious beliefs: Okay — some good, some bad. Structural biases: Again, this is what is dealt with all over the world throughout history.

  18. November 16, 2016 at 11:49 am

    Not only abortion is abortion, contraception is abortion — and, not only that, including women is abortion, educating girls is abortion. Safe childbirth and reproductive care are abortion.

    A stroke of genius!
    Redefine all of those “difficult” issues as “abortion” – or give them a similar objectionable label and they can be summarily dismissed without need for rational discussion.

    However, despite the way Jerod has tried to redirect this issue, it has never been about whether Clinton supports abortion or not – it is clear that she does – the issue I’ve been raising is the way messages have been created to cause fear about her attitude to Christians, for example that she’s going to demand they kneel and deny their faith. The fact that “Christians” are promoting such lies is far more concerning than whether a secular politician is pro-abortion or not.

    The deceptive message is not that Clinton approves of abortion – the deceptive message is that she’s going to persecute Christians and demand they renounce their faith.

  19. November 16, 2016 at 12:14 pm

    Jerrod posted

    Here’s the quote from a Facebook post gushing about Clinton. I wanted a liberal take on it, in order that your seemingly willful stupidity would be cut short or made complete:

    I wanted a liberal take on it, in order that your seemingly willful stupidity would be cut short or made complete:
    https://m.facebook.com/umchildrenshome/posts/10153761891312224

    4) [Clinton] believes the religious views of others must
    change to support legal abortion.

    Jerrod, that site is merely quoting the exact same speech that was excerpted in that deceptive/manipulative video you’re intent on supporting. Whether the owner of that Facebook site is liberal, conservative, religious, atheist, communist, capitalist or none of the above, what they wrote is no more valid than the garbage presented in that video. IT is STILL a projection of a persons opinion INTO the content and intent of that small out of context excerpt, and in no way does justify the inexcusable lies regarding Christians being made to Kneel and deny their faith (and similar).

  20. 20 Marleen
    November 16, 2016 at 1:28 pm

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29734328/ns/world_news-africa/t/pope-condoms-not-answer-aids-fight/
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/world/europe/21pope.html
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7947460.stm
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/8148944/The-Pope-drops-Catholic-ban-on-condoms-in-historic-shift.html

    I don’t believe that I would have needed to bow at the feet of “the pope” prior to the official allowance or acknowledgment that using a condom can in some circumstances be better than not.

    Now, in my country, I can easily make that decision for myself. In some other countries, you wouldn’t be able to find a condom for a hundred miles. And laws against rape are hardly if at all enforced.

  21. 21 Jerod
    November 17, 2016 at 4:14 am

    Your last post took her quote out of context from the site. Admittedly it is quite long, but a search will get you where you need to be in it.
    I posted the link in order for you to read for yourself without posting tl;dr.

    When opposing world views can agree on the meaning of her statements, it is clear what the meaning is, except to those who wish to justify their indefensable support for Progressive platforms.
    The quote justifies the killing of the just born and the unborn under the guise of reproductive care. Every progressive liberal would agree. Can you find me a liberal who doesn’t agree? If not you are just making noise about your own mental concoctions.

    If you chastise your brethren beyond reason (the video does not lie, according to other like minded sources, as I posted) you are an accuser of the brethren and against them. You are without love of a brother because you would sooner see Bill’s ministry stop, then reconcile over, get this,

    a perceived lie from a brother about your perceived truth from an admitted liar on the topic of an antichrist agenda.

    What does the Bible ACTUALLY say about these situations?

    “But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons…”
    ” ‘He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.’ ” Matthew 12:24-30

    Rebuking a faithful teacher for something that MIGHT be construed as sensational at worst …? Whose side are you on?

    Mark 9:40
    Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40“For he who is not against us is for us. 41“For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. 42 Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea. 
    Mark 9:40

    How many new or immature believers are not receiving good teaching because you scatter them from it, drawing spurious conclusions about Bill’s teaching from a video you consider to be false when the subject of it is a master at decieving others? Are you in the place to discourage others from his ministry when Christ himself did not do such?

    tl;dr unavoidable, apologies

  22. November 17, 2016 at 8:06 am

    Jerod said

    Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40“For he who is not against us is for us. 41“For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as followers of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. 42 Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.
    Mark 9:40

    How many new or immature believers are not receiving good teaching because you scatter them from it,

    Jerod,
    There is a high degree of (unintended) irony in what you’ve said, which I’m sure you meant as a condemnation directed towards me. And yet – you stand by a man who has blatantly directed his assorted followers (of all potential levels of maturity) to a manipulative lying video and refuses to accept any accountability for the message it pushes. Randles himself has denied that he has any responsibility regarding the overall extreme message of the video (even though he directed people to it as a reliable source of information).

    As I have asked you – I asked Randles to explain the clear lying contradictions between what Clinton clearly said and what the video presenter CLAIMED she said (see below * ). You ignored me, but Randles replied “I don’t need to explain that because I didn’t say any such thing- it is disingenuous to insist that I explain it”. In other words, because he personally didn’t make the statement that is the heart and centre of a video he recommended, he has no responsibility for its outright lies. Even though HE pointed his followers towards it.

    And do you know what. People have swallowed and continue to defend that lie. THAT is what is causing “these little ones to stumble”, teachers who promote lying information sources and refuse to take responsibility for the outcome.

    ________________
    *
    Clinton said: “I believe, the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their societies is the great unfinished business of the 21st century”

    The presenter of the video tells us she said:

    “The change of Christian beliefs is the unfinished business of the 20th Century? This means that she wants to persecute Christians.”

  23. 23 Marleen
    November 17, 2016 at 8:21 am

    I didn’t vote for her, Jarod (since that seems to be your main concern, I will share that). But she is actually concerned about women and girls beyond being for choices in that matter (which, honestly, most people are in favor of when they know anything — even pro-life doctors will admit there are times you can’t save a woman’s life without removing a fetus from her body). I, personally, didn’t even get the usual tests that lead to some people then being presented with decisions about the health of their baby or of the mother (or herself). I wouldn’t have wanted to make that choice. So why bother with the test? I’ve had five children (an zero abortions).

    And thank God.

    But when, for instance, you go to court, you can’t just say “this person is bad and I hate her, now send her to jail or hang her.” Well, you can. But a properly functioning court doesn’t work that way.

    Lastly: She didn’t win because she hasn’t demonstrated that she is progressive.

  24. November 17, 2016 at 8:33 am

    jerod said:

    If you chastise your brethren beyond reason (the video does not lie, according to other like minded sources, as I posted)

    I have no interest in how “like minded sources” may interpret the video. My issue is with what the video ACTUALLY says and not what meaning people with certain political hostilities want to manufacture from the video.
    However my main issue is with the careless and irresponsible way that “Christians” are willing to use blatant lies to justify a political agenda that has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God. And that issue of using blatant lies is a very serious thing.

  25. November 17, 2016 at 8:58 am

    Steve made this astute comment in a comment on a different thread. The truth of it says a lot about this ongoing issue.
    He writes of:

    the amazing inability of many Christians to simply distinguish between good and evil, and what that says about their “faith.” But we’ve all seen our discourse with majority Christianity go well beyond that point: that the evils and deceptions they have failed to discern, they increasingly embrace and defend adamantly, with anger and threats.

  26. 26 Marleen
    November 18, 2016 at 3:58 am

    I had a roommate freshman year, college (assigned — I’d never met her before) who was pregnant. Then she found out she was pregnant with twins. She came from a poor family and had no prenatal care before she came to the college and had access to the care the college provided. Something was wrong with one of the two babies such that the womb was becoming toxic. This was poisoning the other of the two babies. This was bad for the mother’s health too, but she would have done all she could to put up with it had it not been the case both babies were going to die. So, she went ahead and had the dying baby removed to save the other.

  27. 27 Marleen
    November 18, 2016 at 2:20 pm

    I wonder if there was a desire to use the kneeling-before-a-politician imagery because of Trump (March third, 2016, speaking to his moaning, cheering crowd) saying Mitt Romney would have gotten down on his knees in front of Trump in 2012 when Mitt went to Trump Tower and Trump “backed” him.

    Trump [pointing down]: “I could have said, ‘Mitt, drop to your knees.’ He would have dropped to his knees.”

    Trump [with scorn on his face]: “You can see how loyal he is. He was begging for my endorsement.”

    Now these are actual, REAL QUOTATIONS (and real, accompanying body language by Trump).

  28. 28 Marleen
    November 30, 2016 at 1:24 pm

    http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_hayes_dsheriffclarke_161129
    Well, you know, as long as it’s not called abortion. And, who did she think she was, anyway?

    These are what I see as types of reactions/realities reflecting on certain kinds of right-wing voters.


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