17
Oct
16

Deception and Manipulation revisited.


I’m still getting notifications from Bill Randles’ blog whenever someone posts a comment on his thread about Donald Trump.

Among those comments I came across the following from “Faith Contender”.

The first part refers to something I said about a statement made by Hilary Clinton shown in the video I wrote about here:

https://onesimusfiles.wordpress.com/2016/10/12/a-lesson-in-deception-and-manipulation/.

I tried to answer “Faith Contender” on Randles’ blog, however it seems like Randles deleted that reply, fortunately I kept a copy of it and reproduce it in full below. Note that both the actual content of the video AND what I wrote about it aren’t addressed. “Faith Contender” approaches the matter with collection of assumptions and second hand information ( such as “from what I heard she was referring to …”).

It seems like few of those commenting on Randles’ blog  have actually viewed the video for themselves to make their own judgement, OR they are in agreement with its content and the methods used by its makers.

_____________________________

Faith Contender says:

Onesimus…

What do you think she might have meant? That too many believers were engaging in heresy? First of all, no one has the right to tell anyone to ‘change their religion’! That is not their choice, it is ours. Second, this is a free country, and we have the right of freedom of religion acknowledged (we have the right anyway, only it is honored here… or it once was.) Third, from what I heard she was referring to gay marriage. Fourth, true believers will never change their religion or deny our faith. Fifth, no one has to do anything as no one can force anyone without their consent. Sixth, the only thing we ‘must’ do is remain loyal to Jesus unto death. Seventh, hillary has to change her religion. (One day every knee will bow… etc.) HA.

But yes, you do deceive yourself and I tell you this out of love.

Hi Faith Contender, I had decided not to comment here again, but I think you deserve a reply.
In NO way has anything I’ve said been intended as acceptance or support of Clinton or her beliefs.
I posted a link to a blog post I wrote about the video that Bill promoted above – and I pointed out that the video was a deceptive and manipulative piece of propaganda. GENUINE Christians should not (would not) resort to such tactics as those used within that video.
This is one of the clearest examples of what is done on the video:

After showing a short excerpt of Clinton speaking, the presenter returns and excitedly says:

“Did you see that? Did you notice that she said that the change of Christian beliefs is the unfinished business of the 20th Century? This means that she wants to persecute Christians.”

But let’s have a look at what she ACTUALLY said:

“I believe the advancement of the full participation of women and girls in every aspect of their society is the great unfinished business of the 21st century.”

Is that what the presenter has claimed she has said? Is there any truth to what he claims?

NO!

But then he continues, revealing the real agenda behind the video when he says

“God willing, Donald Trump will vanquish this witch…”

The issue I’ve been trying to address is NOT about Clinton or Trump – it’s been about the behaviour and attitudes of professing Christians, willing to lie and promote lies for a political agenda that has nothing at all to do with the Kingdom of God.

Does THAT make me deceived?
Does that make me a member of a religious cult “Prolly more than one”, as Jerrod* accused later?

__________________

* Jerrod was another commenter on Randle’s blog

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9 Responses to “Deception and Manipulation revisited.”


  1. 1 Steve
    October 17, 2016 at 12:44 pm

    “The issue I’ve been trying to address is NOT about Clinton or Trump – it’s been about the behaviour and attitudes of professing Christians, willing to lie and promote lies for a political agenda that has nothing at all to do with the Kingdom of God.”

    That’s straight, and right-on. AMEN !

  2. October 17, 2016 at 12:51 pm

    Sadly it’s not the reality being recognised by those who are SO anti-Clinton that they’ll accept anything being said against her no matter how its being presented.

  3. 3 Roger
    October 18, 2016 at 5:18 am

    Over the last few days I had wondered about comment editing – you’ve now confirmed it. 😦

  4. 4 Roger
    October 18, 2016 at 6:16 am

    Another thought – following on from the above. I’ve mentioned before, in emails, about a local group we met in recent months. The leader, an ex elder from a local church, continues to share with those local church assemblies, as he is allowed, concerning deceptions and apostasy that is being accepted into those assemblies.

    However, this same man has befriended and welcomed two others – one of proven Hebrew Root belief, the other a self proclaimed apostle and prophet, (proven false) – because their views fit with his concerning the ‘need’ to physically prepare with supplies etc. ready for the future. Similar to ‘preppers’.

    This individual will not accept from us any warnings concerning those others – we have broken contact, although we continue to warn when he contacts us.

    We aren’t ‘heard’ because our warnings speak against those who have the same, or similar, opinions – and yet that man continues to express amazement that others aren’t hearing his warnings about deception.

    We’ve tried to explain that when one ‘accepts’ something false as truth, then incorporates that into their own belief – the slide into further deception has started. This applies both to those assemblies he is concerned about, and sadly, to himself.

    The similarity here, is that we absolutely must check out and use discernment for everything, with truth in every area being our ideal.

    We cannot accept lies in any way – least of all to support our ‘belief’. When we do that it is our ‘belief’ that is wrong.

  5. October 18, 2016 at 8:02 am

    We’ve tried to explain that when one ‘accepts’ something false as truth, then incorporates that into their own belief – the slide into further deception has started.

    And

    We cannot accept lies in any way – least of all to support our ‘belief’. When we do that it is our ‘belief’ that is wrong

    Roger, no one sets out with the aim of being deceived. It is a step by step process that can start with the narrowest of open doors, such as accepting something small that isn’t quite right because it seems to support something bigger that we are convinced IS right.

  6. 6 Roger
    October 18, 2016 at 8:16 am

    We agree… A warning for us all to tread with care.

  7. 7 Marleen
    October 18, 2016 at 9:53 am

    Well… convinced IS right… or convinced is what is wanted. Both of these
    ways “in” to deception (out from truth) happen. It matters to care about truth.

  8. 8 Jerod
    November 5, 2016 at 3:56 pm

    Onesimus, I never said you belonged to a religious cult, but you know I was speaking in terms of the dictionary definition – in those terms, we all have our little cults. THAT comment you made is exactly what you are condemning on Bill Randles’ blog.

    My quote:

    Jerod on October 13, 2016 at 7:30 am

    Onesimus,

    My attempt at grace is to say I believe you are a saved individual, that you have the best intention for a faithful pastor of God’s flock.

    But the truth is
    To start, Bill’s article was not about Hillary. Fake news site or not, the quote is correct. You are creating a strawman and ignoring the intent, which is to obviate the dilemma and help the reader understand the fork in the road at which we stand.

    You said *”her statement about religious beliefs needing to be changed is 100% correct.”*

    If you believe in freedom of thought just take that phrase she uttered at face value:

    “religious beliefs will need to be changed”

    Religions of any color are by broader definition cults. Chances are you belong to a cult yourself. Prolly more than one. Cults are gatherings of like minded/like intentioned people in worship and/or cause (a bad paraphrase). Though you may not agree with her methods, you state you agree with the principle that Christian mouths should be sewn shut by judicial decree or legislation – or just how do you think she will fulfill that campaign promise? How does the government change any religious belief? Is there an abstinence program for that? Doesn’t that principle you agree with fly in the face of Jesus’ command to love your neighbor as yourself? May I shut you up because you make comments having to do with Christ and, in my insular, caffeinated, irritated bowel view of scripture, you have no biblical grounds to make them? I can? I’m sure Hillary is working on it. Glad you agree

    True, there are a lot of jerks who say a lot of moronic things, of which I am often the chief. Any cult has a lot of jerks and those dark blemishes stand out in greater intensity against a group of believers who profess as their standard and hope a God who is himself light, 1 John 5. Even more so when every believer knowingly falls short and runs back to their God’s arms for forgiveness, in some kind of sick self-enabling hypocrisy – or so it would seem to the likes of the antichrist (spirit of the age) world, of which Hillary is a proud follower. Our standard is a God who is light and truth, but his reflection among believers down here is closer to a mottled banana than God, than Christ Jesus. If you are judging Bill’s calling as a pastor on picking the right fork over the left, on his part an admittedly tenuous maneuver, than I would remind you that God hasn’t judged you for your mottled banana, nor has he judged the US for 60 million infanticides. Nor has he judged the Evil in this world, because he gives each of us and our loved ones time.

    I feel you, though.

    I dislike Chump intensely. I border sometimes on hating him. But he struggles (hopefully he struggles) with many of the same sins I struggle with (if only money were one of my $truggle$). I wonder if that’s why I dislike him. Because I know how unfit he seems to me to be to lead, yet he’s what we are given. I know how unfit I am in myself to have any of the things or people in my life that I have, yet I, who struggle daily with sin like Chump’s, am what they are given as a leader. Perhaps you dislike him because he is like you in some respects. In fact I know he is. He is a sinner. An unrepentant sinner with a lack of love and fidelity, crude and shameless. He may fire himself before his term is up. But he is who we are. You can’t knock anybody before you recognise you belong, in many respects, to the same cult as Hillary, as Trump, as Bill, as your wife (assuming), as me. People who need grace and time. We get the leaders we deserve. This election is spot on.

    5… God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

    1 John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

    Reply

    Jerod on October 13, 2016 at 7:37 am

    Doh! I hate it when I get the verse wrong.1 John 1, 1 John 1!! Nuts…

  9. November 8, 2016 at 8:05 am

    Hi Jerrod,
    You say :

    “But the truth is
    To start, Bill’s article was not about Hillary. Fake news site or not, the quote is correct.”

    Sorry Jerrod, I have to shake my head in confusion – not being able to understand how anyone can say “the quote is correct” when referring to the content of that video. I’ve written out what WAS actually said – and then recorded what the presenter on the video claimed was said.

    There is no correlation between the two.

    The presenter’s claims were a complete and blatant lie; and Bill Randle’s recommendation of that video and his subsequent refusal to admit his promotion of it was wrong, are a danger to his ministry and to those who continue to follow his ministry despite the lies he has supported.

    You say that Trump struggles with some of the same sins you do?
    And do you think he struggles more or less with sin than Clinton does – making him more worthy of “evangelical” support?

    What do you think GOD’S purpose may be related to the election campaign and the type of candidates running, and what kind of purpose could GOD have with the result of the election?
    What do you think GOD’S view would be of the support being given to either candidate (and HOW that support is being given) by people professing to be “Christians”?

    Do you think that America’s greatness is even on God’s agenda?

    Do you think that “evangelical” support of Trump, and the accompanying vilification of Clinton presents a good witness of the gospel to a sinful world?


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