22
Apr
13

Boston Bombing Question


Like many people I watched the news coverage of the way police closed in on the Boston bombers. I’m sure there’s a feeling of relief that those two murderers will have no chance to kill and maim anyone else.

But I have a question. There’s a part of the story that doesn’t add up, and that is the reported death of the older of the two perpetrators in a shoot out.

Why doesn’t it add up?

Because I saw a news report where the man was arrested. There was video footage of police pushing him into a police car and driving away. They had stripped him naked before taking him to the car, fearing he may have explosives strapped to his body.

Through all of this he did not seem injured or incapacitated in any way. Of course his image was blurred to avoid offending a conservative TV audience, but surely the camera person and the TV station broadcasting the footage had seen the man’s naked body and would have noted and mentioned gunshot wounds.

Then not long afterwards  the man was dead, reported to be fatally wounded in the shootout that had preceded his arrest. And the video of him being arrested and driven away naked has not been seen or mentioned again. If this was a third man arrested in error, why no explanatory statement to clear up the issue.

Why?

What really happened?

(there seems to be copies of the video on youtube)

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49 Responses to “Boston Bombing Question”


  1. April 23, 2013 at 1:29 am

    Hi, Tim:

    Before this post gives rise to another anti-government conspiracy-theory…which the US is already rife with. LOL…here’s NPR’s at-the-time transcript of their report on the “naked man” suspect, which I think is what you’re referring to.

    http://www.npr.org/2013/04/19/177905016/police-chase-bombing-suspects-through-suburbs

    I happened to be on a long drive that morning, and was listening to NPR’s minute-to-minute reporting. I remembered the “naked man” report, and looked it up. They described him as a third suspect, and distinguished him from the dead suspect.

    I believe the “naked man” was later determined to be the guy driving a vehicle the two bombers car-jacked. They dropped him off before the shoot-out where one was killed. Police initially treated him as a suspect until they verified who he was.

    In Jesus, Steve

  2. April 23, 2013 at 8:25 am

    Maybe it’s just unfortunate that in the “heat of the moment” someone forgot to officially make this situation clear, leaving the impression that a healthy suspect was arrested and somewhere on the journey became decidedly “unhealthy”.

    From an overseas perspecitve this doesn’t need an “anti-governmnet conpsiracy” – we’ve seen examples of US law enforcement in practice in previous news reports, making it seem like little has changed since the days of thew Wild West. The repeated uproar over “gun control” tends to confirm that impression, seeing that safety and justice can be found in firearms rather than having trust in the legal system.

  3. 3 Marleen
    April 25, 2013 at 8:44 am

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/vp/51627223#51627480
    “Whoever came in alive, stayed alive”

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/vp/51640405#51640405
    http://animalnewyork.com/2013/the-apology-the-new-york-post-should-have-issued/
    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/?nvo=0&3914453|a|nu|30|1|t|a|0=14 “Best new thing…”

    These are a look at some
    other matters that didn’t get a lot of general attention.

    The first one is largely (but not only) about an officer who was briefly mentioned then out of the story.

  4. 4 Marleen
    April 25, 2013 at 8:50 am

    Sorry; the last one is not going to what I intended (another, different, maddow link for the same story).

  5. 5 UnprofitableServant
    May 14, 2013 at 4:07 am

    Oh my, you wouldn’t be inferring that some sort of “conspiracy” is at work would you?

    There are many things like this that have happened since 9/11 and even before that many people have tried to point out…. even world leaders

    “Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” Woodrow Wilson,The New Freedom (1913)

    “The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes.” Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952

    The easiest way to gain control of the population is to carry out acts of terror. The public will clamor for such laws if the personal security is threatened. – Joseph Stalin

    “For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.” JOHN F. KENNEDY APRIL 27, 1961 SPEECH

    “No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation.” David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

  6. May 14, 2013 at 8:30 am

    No inference of massive conspiracy. Just the possibility of local law enforcement covering each other’s backs and turning a blindeye to an “accidental” gun discharge.

    Considering the hysteria easily whipped up about terrorism* there wouldn’t be too many people concerned about the fate of a terrorist.

    * records show that terrorist attacks in the USA today are far fewer than they were a few decades ago.

  7. 7 UnprofitableServant
    May 14, 2013 at 10:59 am

    It’s OK Ones, I was just “busting your chops” as they say over here… at least with my opening sentence…

    The other quotes by credible men are a bit more serious…

    Yes, there are “accidental” gun discharges and other odd happenings that can’t be explained away by anything other than an accusation of cover up or conspiracy.

    Records also show that gun violence is down as well, not as the press made it seem after Newtown, CT…

    Gun Violence Is Down, But You Wouldn’t Know From The News

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/050913-655525-rising-tide-of-gun-violence-is-media-driven-myth.htm

    The mass media are puppetmasters. Careful not to get fooled by them….

  8. May 14, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Terrorist violence has also been down in the USA during the last few decades, but the impression given is that it is a new and constant danger.

    What’s the latest on the Mother’s Day Parade shootings? It’s quickly slipped out of the news here (which is unusual) – clearly the guilty party (or parties) couldn’t be linked to a “foreign terrorist plot”.

  9. 9 Steve
    May 14, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Unprof: there doesn’t seem to be any such office as “Planetary Initiative:” at the UN, or anyplace else than in some blogger’s imagination. (He must have forgotten to wear his tinfoil beany that day.)

    David Spangler is for real…a real New Age loon. I don’t doubt his “Luciferian” quote may be for real: but it only seems to show up on blogs citing it as “proof” of the evil schemes of the New World Order, etc.

    You’re right that this is the sort of thing the real media will never tell us: they’re limited to reporting real-world facts.

    Probably time for THE word on conspiracy-thinking:

    “For thus the Lord spoke to me with mighty power and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,

    ‘You are not to say, “It is a conspiracy!”
    In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy,
    And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it.
    It is the Lord of hosts whom you should regard as holy.
    And He shall be your fear,
    And He shall be your dread.’ ” (Isaiah 8:11-13)

    In Jesus, Steve

  10. 10 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Hi Steve,

    I agree with what the Lord said,

    You are not to say, “It is a conspiracy!”
    In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy

    This is very true that we should not call every single thing that is called a conspiracy as such.

    But some indeed are.

    David Spangler did write a book called “Towards a Planetary Vision” which no doubt is an ode to a new world order.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Spangler

    From what I understand, David Spangler did indeed say those words in his 1978 book “REFLECTIONS ON THE CHRIST”

    Spangler also worked with the Findhorn Foundation which is a NGO with ties to the UN.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Findhorn_Foundation

    This guy has such outrageous ideas its quite possible that he bestowed that “title” of “Director of Planetary Initiative” upon himself…

  11. 11 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 9:31 am

    Hi Ones,

    As far as the Mothers Day shooting, I personally haven’t read much about it except in passing. I did see somewhere that it could possibly be another false flag but I haven’t researched it.

    Lots of interesting goings on over here. Please pray for the brethren in the US.

    REPORT: Russia’s CIA spy bust ‘linked to Boston Bombing’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324861/Russias-CIA-spy-bust-linked-Boston-Bombing-U-S-diplomat-trying-recruit-Dagestan-expert-travelled-terrorist-s-home-town-arrested.html

    If someone in the US wants to read the truth, we frequently have to use foreign or underground media to get it.

    Kremlin summons US ambassador

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/15/ryan-fogle-summoned-russia-spy-claims

    WASHPOST: ‘Something fishy’

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/14/5-signs-theres-something-fishy-about-the-alleged-cia-spy-arrested-in-moscow/

  12. 12 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 10:22 am

    But THE definitive scripture on conspiracy is Psalm 2.

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkjv/psalms/2.html

    The plot is the mystery of iniquity which is known to the modern world as the new world order. A technological tower of Babel which will require all to be marked in order to buy or sell.

    And when the times of the gentiles are complete, the world head of the mystery of iniquity will be revealed as the beast.

    Don’t get too attached to your head…. 🙂

  13. May 16, 2013 at 10:28 am

    With one massive leap of “logic” assumptions are made, conclusions are reached – all of which are based on 99.9% speculation and 0.1% bible.

    That is the kind of foundation upon which “christian” conspiracies are buit.

  14. 14 Steve
    May 16, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Hi, Unprof:

    ” [David Spangler] has such outrageous ideas its quite possible that he bestowed that “title” of “Director of Planetary Initiative” upon himself…”

    That I can certainly believe. He wouldn’t be the first self-promoting charlatan…New Age, Christian, or otherwise…that’s come down the pike. LOL.

    “This is very true that we should not call every single thing that is called a conspiracy as such.

    But some indeed are.”

    True. The conspiracy in Isaiah’s immediate time was evidently quite real. And in our time, leaders of the international Communist conspiracy were very upfront about their intent: Kruschev famously proclaimed that “We will bury you.”

    But it doesn’t seem that God draws a distinction between the real and the imaginary in His command, does it ? That we are to fear neither: and that none of man’s evil intents, whether actually set afoot or only dreamt, will stand against His determinative sovereignty ?

    In Jesus, Steve

  15. 15 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    It was paraphrase Ones but it’s all in the scriptures.

    Was I supposed to recite in 1611 Olde Englishe with detailed scripture references cerfitied by a seminary?

    If the people that are plotting a vain thing in Psalm 2 are ruled with the rod of iron of Christ mentioned in Psalm 2 AND Revelation 3 times, Revelation 2:27, 12:5 and 19:15, who do you suppose are going to be opposing Him at His coming?

    Psalm 2 is talking about mankind rebelling with an open rebellion against God, just like the days of Noah and Lot…

    The NWO is not a Christian idea Ones and it is REAL, I hope you DO realize that… And we aren’t going to be invited to be in the NWO. I hope you also realize that and that we will be subject to extermination as well. Unless we cave and get the mark and worship the beast and his image…

    You can dismiss all the small conspiracies you want but when satan is cast to the earth all hell is going to break loose as Revelation clearly explains.

    mystery of iniquity: (lawlessness) 2 Thessalonians 2:7 This will be revealed with the antichrist.

    mark of the beast: Revelation 13, 14, 15, 16, 19 and 20

    time(s) of the gentiles: Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2

    revealing of the beast, lawless one, antichrist, etc.: 2 Thessalonians 2

    Don’t you study prophecy?

  16. May 16, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Yes I have studied prophecy IN SCRIPTURE and it changed the conspiratorial views I’d been indoctrinated with prior to going to scripture.

    While you are caught up with NWO conspiracies, I see a greater threat coming from nations LITERALLY mentioned in scripture; those in the middle east that like Israel are also descended from Abraham.

    No need for interpretational gymnastics to squeeze in the USA, the EEC, communist Russia, the Vatican – or any other popular candidates for the origin of antichrist.

  17. May 16, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    “paraphrase” is not a synonym for “speculate”.

  18. 18 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Honestly,

    I have no time for anyone who calls themselves a Christian who cannot see that what the UN and many world leaders are quoted as calling the “new world order” isn’t exactly what David wrote about in Psalm 2, Daniel in much of his book, what Jesus talked about in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 as well as what Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2 and John in the book of Revelation….

    Or at the very least is willing to consider it.

    For me, to associate with Christians who are so stubbornly shortsighted is to put my family, friends and brethren in harms way.

    And that I will not do….

    When the goin gets rough anyone I even suspect to be wavering towards deception is going to be avoided like the plague….

  19. 19 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Absolutely Steve,

    Jesus said we are not to fear him who kills the body and thats all the meanest person or group on the planet can do to us…

  20. May 16, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    But you have plenty of time to spend with your wildly specualtive conspiracies.

    And no one is making you spend time here trying to promote those conspiracies.

    To be honest I REALLY don’t have time to keep going over the same old ground and revisiting the same old, unsupported claims. There are many more important things to do.

  21. 21 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    No speculation Ones…scriptural fact….

    Who is this that is mentioned in Daniel?

    Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

    Sounds to me like the west meddling in the middle east…. Kind of like whats been happening since the first gulf war doesn’t it?

    Tick Tock….

    And please, don’t tell me it’s talking about Alexander the great because the angel in Daniels vision clearly told him many times that he was talking about “the time of the end”.

  22. May 16, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Now why on earth would I suggest anything that scripture actually says when I could speculate and reinterpet scripture so that it “really” means something entirely different?

    Daniel 8:21 And the goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.

  23. 23 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    Unsupported?

    You are simply not hearing or seeing. There is much to support what I’ve said. Primarily in the scriptures and also in the world around us.

    I’m sorry for you ones. You were so jaded by the abundance of conspiracy theories that you refuse to believe that any exist at all and that simply is not the case.

    You never answer any points I bring up with a logical answer or refutation by scripture… you simply dismiss it as conspiracy, crazy, etc. et al, ad infinitum….

    I thought the Word states that we should become all things to all men that some might be saved?

    What happens when YOU meet a conspiracy buff in person?

    You going to throw them under the bus with sarcasm or dismissal as a nut case?

  24. May 16, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    You ask “What happens when YOU meet a conspiracy buff in person?”

    Surely you have see what happens in my correspondence with you.

    When I don’t answer your points its probably because I’m fed up of digging over old ground and continually refuting the same old nonsense.

    And there is NOTHING in the scriptures to support most of your views – as shown in your reference to Daniel 8, you take part of a chapter, create your own interpretation and then ignore the part of the chapter that ACTUALLY TELLS YOU WHAT THE EARLIER PART MEANS.

    If that is the best you can do with “logical answers and refutation by scripture” then stop wasting your time and mine. PLEASE!

  25. 25 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    The West today is still the “king of Greece” and will be until the time of the gentiles is fulfilled at the time of the end.

    Rome was the “king of Greece” in the days of Paul.

    He classified believers as Jews or Greeks in his letters not Jews or Romans….

  26. 26 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    So tell me Ones…

    Plainly and logically, short and sweet… answer this one question and I wont bring it up again…

    What exactly is the new world order?

    And don’t dismiss it as conspiracy as a many UN and world leaders have mentioned it by name many times.

  27. 27 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground.

    Alexander walked with his army… and he didnt come “across the surface of the whole earth”, he came from around a thousand miles away, 1/24 of the whole earth….on foot, there were no planes in ancient Greece….

  28. 28 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    Hi Steve,

    About Kruschev saying he would bury us…

    Some would say that there is no more threat from such thinking….or threats.. that all the Soviet Unions communists simply said “OK, were gonna all gonna retire, forget about that silly communism and be good capitalists now so we can party with the west!”

    Kruschev said that it would be from within that our burial would come…. from within

    Seems to be going right on schedule…..

  29. 29 UnprofitableServant
    May 16, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    “Surely you have see what happens in my correspondence with you.”

    And surely you do realize there are men like Peter in the garden who haven’t been converted yet that would smite your ear off for you if you talked to them like they were some kind of punk?

  30. May 17, 2013 at 8:10 am

    Let me share a little secret…

    Paul didn’t write the book of Daniel.

  31. May 17, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Quite likely a cliched term that is easily snatched up by conspiracy theorists and given a more sinister meaning than it deserves.

    Just like statements by new age loonies like David Spangler are given more credence by conspiracy theorists than they are by actual Spangler followers.

  32. May 17, 2013 at 8:19 am

    Another little secret – Alexander wasn’t really a goat.

  33. May 17, 2013 at 8:25 am

    The USA is probably approaching its sell-by date anyway.

    Like recent empires before it, America’s “empire” will most likely crumble from within.
    The British empire lasted about a century. The Soviet empire lasted only 70 years. The USA has been a “superpower” for about 70 years. History shows it will not be around for ever and it won’t need any big conspiracy to bring it about.

  34. May 17, 2013 at 8:27 am

    People aren’t converted by having Christians swallow their conspiracy theories. They turn to Jesus through responding to the conviction of the Holy Spirit through the TRUTH of the gospel.

  35. May 18, 2013 at 2:55 am

    In regard to conspiracies: although God doesn’t make a distinction between real and imaginary, probably we do. As long as we don’t FEAR them, that’s probably a sound response: we should take more seriously what is real. And again, some conspiracies are real.

    I’m thinking of “conspiracy” as the enemy’s imitation of the UNITY in The Spirit which (only) Christians have: the enemy’s “fellowship” in his spirit. That may be overly speculative: but it’s undoubtedly true that conspiracy consists of human beings joining together in a SHARED evil purpose. And Satan is unquestionably the author of all evil purposes.

    But more than what conspiracies arise, I think the Spirit has taught me lately to try to discern the spirit(s) from which they rise: the Proverbial (literally) wisdom that “as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.” At least here in the US, rebelliousness seems to be the nexus into which all the other evils (pride, blasphemy, self, violence, etc.) connect.

    At least here in the US, Satan’s real and ongoing conspiracy to co-opt the Church has likewise centered on rebelliousness: a shrewd tactic in a nation whose “founding fathers” were rebels, and rebelliousness can be equated with “patriotism.”. His other shrewd tactic was to plant his evil operative ideas into Christians’ hearts and minds via the political faction Christians identified with.

    It started with Ronald Reagan’s first inaugural address, announcing his principle of government was that government is an evil: “government IS the problem.” It’s staggeringly illogical for those whose purpose is to BE the government, but it’s a proven vote-getter (my local Christian Republican Congresswoman was still using that line 30 years later). But more than a nonsensical philosophy of government, it flatly contradicts Romans 13’s teaching that human government’s mandate from God is to be “a minister of God to you for good.”

    Reagan’s signature policy of “de-regulation” also flouted God’s second mandate to human government: to be “a minister of God…to bring wrath on the one who practices evil.” Reagan’s emasculation of federal regulatory oversight (in the energy industry, financial industry, etc.) was a green-light to Big Business’ propensity for evil-doing, with continuing dire consequences for America’s citizens.

    But it was O.K. for the Church to follow Reagan. He was a Christian President, and endorsed by all the Christian bigwigs for his stand against abortion, gay-marriage, etc.: and he loved America (hey, didn’t he protect us against the Communist threats from Grenada and Nicaragua, even if he had to break U.S. and international law to do so ?).

    George W. Bush was an even greater Christian: “brought to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ” by Billie Graham personally, we’re told. What Christian wouldn’t follow him ? Never mind that he told a worldwide audience in his 9-11 anniversary speech that America is “the hope of all mankind…the light [which] shines in the darkness. And the darkness will not overcome it.” Does that sound the least bit like what John 1 says about Jesus ? Does that sound the least bit like blasphemy ?

    Just been trying to understand how over 80% of American evangelicals could think it’s consistent with our faith to say in 2012 they want to be led by the priest of a false Jesus. Clearly, Satan’s conspiracy to co-opt the American Church has been very successful.

    That being so, I find the putative conspiracy of a coming New World Order rather a misdirection of our attention. We have a real, ongoing Satanic conspiracy already in place, in plain sight…and invisible to most Christians. Indeed, most Christians in the US have joined themselves to it.

    However it all plays out, the one certainty is that God does and WILL rule. Maybe He’ll be gracious to waken some of those who’ve been deceived to follow the enemy.

    In Jesus, Steve

  36. 36 UnprofitableServant
    May 19, 2013 at 5:05 am

    I find it funny and yet dangerous that you can dismiss as chiche` what so many UN and National leaders throughout the world have talked about extensively by name in public and on video….

    If we are indeed in the “last days” then we had better figure out who the players mentioned in scripture are in our modern world. If we fail to do that, we will likely be deceived in other ways as well.

    And if we are in the last days, we had better figure out what world leaders from many countries refer to as “the new world order”, “one world government”, etc., and what it may mean to us..

    The final kingdom that Daniel saw in his vision was revealed to be one that would “devour the whole earth”.

    Daniel 7:23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces.

    The beast in Johns vision will be given authority over every tribe, tongue and nation….

    Revelation 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

    AND this beast will make war with us and overcome us…

    This to me proves that any attempt of man to unite apart from God will end in disaster…

    Can you at least admit that?

  37. May 20, 2013 at 8:31 am

    While you’re chasing the NWO you are quite possibly (or likely)missing the REAL danger coming from another direction.

    That’s why I prefer to keep my eyes on the Lord instead of getting worked up over man’s countless conspiracies.

  38. 38 UnprofitableServant
    May 22, 2013 at 3:50 am

    Hi Steve,

    You said,

    “Just been trying to understand how over 80% of American evangelicals could think it’s consistent with our faith to say in 2012 they want to be led by the priest of a false Jesus. Clearly, Satan’s conspiracy to co-opt the American Church has been very successful.”

    Yes, strong delusion wouldn’t you say?

    You said,

    “That being so, I find the putative conspiracy of a coming New World Order rather a misdirection of our attention. We have a real, ongoing Satanic conspiracy already in place, in plain sight…and invisible to most Christians. Indeed, most Christians in the US have joined themselves to it.”

    I disagree. I am convinced that what is known as “the new world order” is the present and possibly final preperation for the kingdom of the beast mentioned in not only both Daniel and Revelation but many other places in scripture.

    The Bible mentions the “mystery of iniquity” in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 which is in direct opposition of the “mystery of God” mentioned in Mark 4:11, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 2:2, 1 Timothy 3:16 and Revelation 10:7

    And just as God has human ambassadors, the adversary does as well.

    If the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one would not world government mean centralized control by satan?

  39. 39 UnprofitableServant
    May 22, 2013 at 3:52 am

    Ones,

    As I said to Steve, being that the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one, world government apart from Christ will be world government under satan.

    Yes, our battle is against spiritual forces but these spiritual forces have human agents just as God does…

    The only world government I am for is one in which the REAL Jesus Christ rules with a rod of iron.

  40. 40 UnprofitableServant
    May 22, 2013 at 4:05 am

    And why do I consider calling the new world order a cliche` as foolish and extremely dangerous to Christians who don’t wish to be deceived?

    Consider the following statement by the prominent Belgian diplomat and astute European strategist, Paul Henry Spack . . .

    “We do not want another committee. We have too many already. What we want is a man of sufficient stature to hold the allegiance of all people and to lift us out of the economic morass into which we are sinking. Send us such a man be he god or devil, we will receive him.”

    Source: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/devils_messiah.htm

    Bio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Henri_Spaak

  41. May 22, 2013 at 8:16 am

    As I said: while you and others are obsessing about “the New World Order”, beware of what is happening elsewhere.

    The NWO obsession, like obsessions with the EEC, Communism, the Church of Rome etc., is more likely to be a distraction which will take attention from the REAL thing when it eventually arrives.

  42. May 23, 2013 at 12:17 am

    Hi, unprof:

    I’d certainly agree that centralized world government of some kind: the uniting of “the kingdoms of men/the nations/this world:” is indicated in scripture. And that will undoubtedly be a tool of the enemy, “the prince of this world.” Ultimately, a united kingdom of man must, by definition, be a vehicle of opposition to the Kingdom of God.

    Where I’m unconvinced is that the numerous human organizations floated as precursors of “one-world government:” the U.N., the Bilderburg Group, Vatican, Skull and Bones, etc., etc.: necessarily are. If they exist at that time, they will undoubtedly be agents of the enemy’s plans: indeed, all whose names are not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life WILL be. But like the Kingdom of God, the coming of the enemy’s “kingdom” is a spiritual event. Like the Kingdom of God (Luke 17:20), I’d expect that the coming of the enemy’s ultimate “kingdom” will not come with signs to observe.

    That’s where I think conspiracy-thinking comes in. And as Tim says, where conspiracy-thinking does its greatest harm, misdirecting our attention AWAY from what’s really happening in the spiritual realm.

    That seems very much how the enemy led the American Church into his camp. First by the misguided fervor of politics (a human endeavor, if ever there was one) as a means of “Christianizing” society. Then the substitution of “issues” (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) for Biblical principles as Christians’ criteria.

    Anyone who followed the enemy that far in the wrong direction easily accepted that one political faction was the “Christian” one. Thereafter, all the sinful doctrines the enemy fed us via that faction (rebelliousness, blasphemous patriotism, factional hatred…and conspiracy-thinking) were taken into the Church’ heart as “Christian values.”

    Satan’s tactic, like the magician’s, is misdirection. “Carefully watch the card in my hand,” as an elephant is led unnoticed on-stage. No offense, brother, but that’s how I’d regard the conspiracy-thinking that floods the Church’ pulpits, book-stalls, and blogs: Satan’s card-tricks, and a sure sign that he’s busily working his scheme somewhere else, outside our spiritual ken.

    In Jesus, Steve

  43. 43 Marleen
    May 23, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    I’m glad when I see not everyone is fooled, Steve. I just turned in a paper a few days before your post in which I said that people “who think ‘government IS the problem’ need to wake up.” Even if it can be taken that government should be improved in some way, the line (and the perspective on regulation) has been taken to extremes that makes no sense. It’s not like the vaccuum “reduced” government (by the people) involves will go unclaimed or is going unclaimed. Like you indicated, it’s a go-ahead — for a different kind of government or rule (that of corrupt evil doers of business who put their bigness or growth or own way above the citizens on the whole).

  44. 44 UnprofitableServant
    May 25, 2013 at 9:06 am

    I am and will beware of what is happening elsewhere Ones.

    Jesus DID tell us to watch what would be happening on the earth as signs of His impending return.

    Wars and rumors of wars
    Commotions
    Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom
    Earthquakes and even great earthquakes in various places
    Famines
    Pestilences
    Fearful sights
    Great signs from heaven
    Signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars
    The Sea and the waves roaring
    On the earth distress of nations
    Perplexity
    Men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21

  45. 45 UnprofitableServant
    May 25, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Hi Steve,

    You said,

    “I’d certainly agree that centralized world government of some kind: the uniting of “the kingdoms of men/the nations/this world:” is indicated in scripture. And that will undoubtedly be a tool of the enemy, “the prince of this world.” Ultimately, a united kingdom of man must, by definition, be a vehicle of opposition to the Kingdom of God.”

    Thats all I’m really trying to say but I am looking for its manifestation in the world today as well.

    “Where I’m unconvinced is that the numerous human organizations floated as precursors of “one-world government:” the U.N., the Bilderburg Group, Vatican, Skull and Bones, etc., etc.: necessarily are. If they exist at that time, they will undoubtedly be agents of the enemy’s plans”

    The thing with that is this. Just as Christ has a “Body” in the assembly of believers here on earth, the beast will as well. I believe those orginizations are the various “denominations” of the mystery of iniquity. Nothing more, nothing less.

    This “body” of the antichrist is and will be composed of men who are oppposed to the kingdom of God just as the Body of Christ is for the kingdom of God.

    “I’d expect that the coming of the enemy’s ultimate “kingdom” will not come with signs to observe.”

    See Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 2 Thessalonians 2, Revelation, etc.

    Those that are alert have a plethora of signs which the Lord gave us to watch for.

    Mark 13:23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

    “And as Tim says, where conspiracy-thinking does its greatest harm, misdirecting our attention AWAY from what’s really happening in the spiritual realm.”

    Although that indeed can happen to those who wish to be entertained by conspiracy, those who truly obey Christs command to watch will be protected from deception by God Himself.

    As to the American “church”, I’ve come out of that long ago and am as Ones, mostly a “lone ranger”.

    These discussions are good though. Jesus said wherever two or more are gathered in His name, He is in the midst.

    And I agree that the American “church” and its mostly 2 issue “Christianity” with abortion and “gay marriage” as seemingly the only sins that exist are deception.

    There is a whole lot of adultery and fornication in the midst that they fail to address… Spiritual as well as physical.

    And I also agree that we need to be sober and vigilant so we aren’t devoured by the tricks of the adversary.

  46. May 27, 2013 at 8:58 am

    Certainly MORE than enough to look out for there without adding more.

  47. 47 Steve
    May 28, 2013 at 3:14 am

    Hi, Marleen: I couldn’t agree more. Human government; inevitably as flawed, incompetent, and tending toward selfishness as humans are themselves; yet has a POSITIVE purpose. To my understanding, God’s mandate that it be a “minister of God to you for good” states that purpose. The human political dictum that “government IS the problem” directly contradicts what God has said, characterizing government as evil.

    The consequences of operating contrary to what God says are too well known to review here.

    I may be personally sensitive to expressions of this particular evil idea, having been a convinced anarchist for several years in the late ’60s. The idea that government was the source of all problems seemed to fit the circumstances of the Vietnam era. But no matter which way I turned it, it couldn’t be made to work in the real world. So it was amazing to hear an American President proclaim a few years later that the core premise of anarchism was his philosophy of government !

    For all the dire consequences of Reaganism, the worst has been that through that political allegiance, the Church has accepted and operates on the enemy’s thoughts and ways as “Christian.”

    Two political candidates were speaking at the county fair. The first took the podium and proclaimed that he represented the party of the great Abraham Lincoln. Further, he said, he espoused Lincoln’s principles. Indeed, he himself had been born in poverty, like Lincoln, and had educated himself, studying by fire-light late into the night, as Lincoln had…and so on. When he finished, it was clear that the candidate was virtually Lincoln reincarnate, and deserving the vote of all who revere Lincoln.

    His opponent took the podium. “It’s true my opponent bears a close resemblance to the great Abraham Lincoln,” he began. He let the amazed silence hang for a long moment before he rasped, “…if you can imagine a short, fat, dishonest Lincoln.”

    The American Church is Christ’s Body in our nation…if you can imagine a rebellious, greedy, violent Christ.

    In Jesus, Steve

  48. 48 Steve
    May 28, 2013 at 5:36 am

    Hi, unprof: I think we’re basically very much on the same wave-length: as might be expected among brothers.

    I may have to modify the thought that perhaps ” the enemy’s ultimate ‘kingdom’ will not come with signs to observe.” As you say, Jesus DOES cite specific worldly manifestations as signs. (With the caveat that He expects us to see BEYOND worldly signs to “analyze” what’s going on: Luke 12:54-6.)

    I take those specific manifestations as quite general, and omnipresent in “the world” (“wars and rumors of wars…famines and earthquakes…” Matthew 24). But He clearly indicates they are the verifiable “beginning of birth pangs:” and goes on to list what will happen to His Body (persecution, falling-away…and testifying the gospel to the entire earth) as the proximate precursors of “the end” (ibid, vv. 9-14).

    You say very well that “This ‘body’ of the antichrist is and will be composed of men who are opposed to the kingdom of God just as the Body of Christ is for the kingdom of God.” We’d probably both agree that in the “tribulation” of believers (above), antiChrist’s ‘body’ has its great opportunity (which is nonetheless at God’s command) to test the Church: and that (at least some of) the men and groups who constitute the “body” of antiChrist are already in place. We’d doubtless agree too that ALL who are not led by our Head will ultimately be led by the enemy.

    My concern of being blind-sided by the enemy would center on our tendency to focus on some of his forces more than others. The list of conspiratorial “usual suspects” indeed seems to reflect a particular political-social consciousness: which probably reflects of our own inevitable cultural prejudices more than anything scripture teaches. (Again, I’d submit this is exactly how Republican “conservatism” became the enemy’s favored vehicle for subverting Christians’ hearts.)

    Re-thinking and re-calibrating here, so does that make sense, and seem valid ?

    In Jesus, Steve

  49. 49 UnprofitableServant
    May 29, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Hi Steve,

    “Again, I’d submit this is exactly how Republican “conservatism” became the enemy’s favored vehicle for subverting Christians’ hearts.)”

    Absolutely. This is exactly what happened in Germany from 1933 to 1939.

    I wouldn’t doubt for a moment that the anti-christ could be a “conservative” in the country he comes from.

    There was alot of socialism going on in Germany after WW1 and that was the environment Hitler was able to galvanize the masses to himself in.

    Same thing is going on here right now and I’m very concerned of the kind of leader that could come AFTER our current president.

    I remember reading an article years ago about what was known as “Das Volk” in Germany during WW2. It was basically a phenomenon where the masses became the “image” of Hitler and were almost one with him.

    If thats any indication of whats to come…..

    Solomon did say there is nothing new under the sun though.

    May the Lord give us all the strength to endure until the end.


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