22 thoughts on “If Moses had been more like Charlton Heston.

  1. Ah, Onesimus, you will have touched a spiritual nerve with this one, but I wonder how many readers will recognise it.

    It’s been particularly interesting to read on forums (fora) the almost unique combination of nationalism, patriotism, bigotry and politics marginally diluted with some Bible teaching which gives a whole new paradigm to Christianity in America.

    Who do you serve, is a question for Americans; my Lord is known to me.

    Charlton Heston played Moses very well indeed, far more dramatically than anyone since.

  2. Yes Martin, popular US “christianity” tends to be a blend of NT (just a light seasoning) with a generous serve of patriotism: serving Father, Son and Uncle Sam.

    Not everyone falls for it of course but its possibly a more dangerous path than an outright rejection of the gospel – at least with the latter people aren’t lulled into the false security of a false gospel.

  3. Onesimus, you’re tempting me here …

    I have little objection to patriotism, in the right proportion. The Bible is full of patriotic acts. What I find harsh and unremitting is nationalism. Also, I see no Biblical place for nationalism.

    Worse, nationalism justified by, as you say, a light seasoning of NT, and to go further, so light it has been odd verses drawn out of context.

    I read Mein Kampf years ago and was struck with the similarities between it and British Nationalism and Americanism.

    And now the big question … if Hitler were a young person today, where would he choose to make his home? Britain, Germany, or perhaps America?

    The key lies in wherever he might have made the greatest impact in our day!

  4. Onesimus, how about a thread to discuss the differences between, applications of and misuses of both Patriotism and Nationalism?

    Could be good!

  5. Thanks for the suggestion Martin, but it’s not really an area that interests me beyond the issue of patriotism/nationalism being confused and blended with the gospel. Where devotion to country is seen as synonymous with devotion to God.

  6. You’re a funny guy Ones…..

    On one hand you stick up for Israel but on the other, you would pry guns out of their hands so they can’t defend themselves against the next Hitler….

    Truly amazing…

    Also, if you post your “opinion” on gun control in a sovereign nation NOT YOUR OWN with a soverign constitution which IS the law of this land whether you like it or not, you ought to allow dissenting comments unless you are a coward…..

    In think that question is solidly answered by your refusal to allow any dissent in your small world down under….

    Seriously, if you are going to force your globalist opinion upon a soverign nation, expect opposition… and answer it like a man….

  7. Unpfrofitable one. You say:
    “On one hand you stick up for Israel but on the other, you would pry guns out of their hands so they can’t defend themselves against the next Hitler….”

    This is nothing to do with to do with Israel. It is about idiotic attitudes to gun ownership in America that helps perpetuate the slaughter of your Amercian citizens – often children and young people in places where they ought to be safe.

    Idiotic attitdues that see the answer to that situation NOT in reducing accesibility to military style weapons but in increasing gun presence and employing armed guards in schools and kindergartens.

    Yes, as you say “Truly amazing…”

    “Also, if you post your “opinion” on gun control in a sovereign nation NOT YOUR OWN with a soverign constitution which IS the law of this land whether you like it or not, you ought to allow dissenting comments unless you are a coward…”

    I’ve allowed dissenting comments – at least 17 of them yours. But I don’t see the point in allowing repetitive irrelevant ranting that compares the lethailty of guns (whose sole purpose is killing) with nail files, steak knives, cars etc, suggesting that THOSE should be banned if military style weaposn are.
    Yes you are a sovereign nation but you try to impose that sovereignty on other nations. You yourself have described the US in terms of protecting the world from Tyranny – like a world’s police force. (And yet you want gun ownership to protect yourselves against the a same governemnet and military you see as protecting the world – your OWN governement and military!)

    “In think that question is solidly answered by your refusal to allow any dissent in your small world down under…”

    “Seriously, if you are going to force your globalist opinion upon a soverign nation, expect opposition… and answer it like a man…”
    I’m “forcing” my opinion upon no one except those who choose to come to this blog (and there’s nothing “globalist” involved in that opinion) and I’m more than willing to answer opposition “like a man” and I DO so without demanding the right of blowing someone’s brains out with a weapon designed only for that purpose. I try to offer opinion and answer opposition through DISCUSSION informed by FACTS instead of conspiracy fairytales.

  8. UPS, a sovereign nation? I beg to differ, sir. To rightly term oneself a sovereign nation one must first have a sovereign. You do not! You have an elected president who is inferior in status to a monarch, being merely a temporary head of state. You remain a break away colony from the most successful empire of all time; your ‘traditions’ are borrowed, your Constitution is simply a Colonial governer’s document and all else follows from that.

    Now let’s deal with your ‘gun control,’ which is no control at all. If you wish to run around shooting yourselves, or blowing up each other as at Twin Towers, that’s fine by me. I would, politely, ask you to keep such things your side of the Pond, and not export them in tears and grief on TV or Hollywood trash.

    Cowardice … now there’s a subject you might not like us to deal with here, being an American.

    To embark upon such obvious venom towards a citizen of a ‘sovereign nation,’ as you have done, belies much about America. I would ask you to consider carefully: at your judgement, of whatever type that may be, how will you answer the Lord of Life when you say, I protected my family with military grade weapons and He says, but, oh dear, I gave you the weapons of warfare and my Apostle Paul wrote them for you two thousand years ago in Ephesians 6. What did you do with them? And what about my commandment, love thy neighbour as thyself? And again, do under others as you would have them do unto you … and, love thine enemies. Ah, is it another matter of unbelief, the cardinal sin?

    Don’t laugh UPS. it’s coming your way.

  9. Hi Martin, To be fair to UPS, he has said that he himself does not trust in arms for personal protection and he doesn’t think that any Christians should do so. But for some strange reason he thinks it is a good thing for non-believers to help maintain his “freedom” through the potential use of arms. (How the right to have the ability to blast the life out of US school children and other unwary citizens achieves that I don’t understand).

    He also credits an armed US citizenry with keeping other nations free from Tyranny.

    Confusion, hypocrisy or misplaced faith?

  10. Martin ,

    When I say “soverign” nation, I am stating a fact that American citizens are their OWN soverigns, each and every one.

    REAL Christians living here are subject to God first and foremost, as they should be, but can also use their citizenship just as Paul used his Roman citizenship in the book of Acts.

    The second amendment is the one amendment that makes all the others possible as an armed population keeps tyrants and unjust laws in check.

    Thank you Ones. You are correct that I don’t believe in keeping arms as a Christian. And also that I wouldn’t deny that right to anyone who is law abiding and not mentally ill.

    “He also credits an armed US citizenry with keeping other nations free from Tyranny”

    No, I simply said that the US acts as the “Police of the World”… I didn’t say anywhere that I agree with that self imposed title by Americas actions…..

    Also, the links which I posted were pro-Israel…. insomuch as Israel has the “right” to “never again” be subject to a Hitler type figure sending them to their deaths….

    Unfortunately, we know that one worse than Hitler is going to make his appearence some day.

  11. Also, when I refer to REAL Christians, I am NOT referring to “The religious right”, Republicans, conservatives of any stripe or any political groups whatsoever, here OR abroad…

    I’m talking about believers in Jesus that reject all systems of the world as they are ALL under the sway of the wicked one…..

  12. Oh, and Martin….

    Yes, the US has a lot to answer for to God…. No mistake about that…

    And also understand that I do not support the wrong it does throughout the world.

  13. Hello Unprofitable: Sincerely, I accept your explanations with understanding, and humility, and thank you for them.

    The danger of internet communications is that we cannot express ourselves adequately: nuances of language get in the path, theological understandings and to some extent cultural barriers too.

    Although not a great patriot towards my country – for what’s it’s worth I’m descended from Polish immigrants – I do fly to it’s defence, and sometimes attack.

    If I’ve caused offence to you or your family, please accept my sincere apologies in Jesus Name. And in that name, let’s be the brothers He wanted us to be.

  14. Hi Martin,

    All is OK. I wasn’t offended by your statement.

    As a believer I totally understand the worlds disdain for my “homeland” and know that it is well deserved,

    Hopefully we will meet some day in the Lords country.

  15. UPS, maybe, one day in the future, when we know each other better through this blog, thanks to Tim, we could exchange email addresses and have sweet fellowship.

    But when we know each other better. Keep posting, I will!

  16. To me, that cartoon represents just about every SW and internet broadcast that I USED to listen to. I’ve somehow stumbled in here, and it’s been a long night of realizing the truth about false prophets in the alternative “news”. I’m a little disappointed, but it’s fine. It’s just what the Bible said.

    I will never read another signed, or unsigned, vision or dream, ever again. To me, that is like voting for the guy who was so great and popular, but still was pro-abortion. What I mean is that these people, who post these dreams and visions, own them too.

    I have a sword. It’s pretty worthless in it’s present state, but I know why it’s semblance has been given to me. Once broken down and abandoned lost men like me… I will never let the hearts of these false prophets lead me, because now I know. It’s the sheep that stray AWAY from the master that get slaughtered.

    I don’t regret my path, I am thankful to even see the path. I only wish I had spent that precious time in the Bible. I’ve already disassociated myself from all groups. I do not join, I follow Jesus. If this nation becomes something I no longer recognize, so be it. I will only defend my life in hope that it’s His will that I am fortunate enough to spread the Gospel as an ambassador of Jesus Christ. It’s an honor to live in this age.

    On a side note, wasn’t Heston Jewish? The cartoon would have had more impact if he was wearing one of those occult David stars whilst commanding me to start the next civil war. They don’t call it tee vee PROGRAMMING for nothing. If that touches a nerve of some perceived “antisemitism”. I really don’t care. I don’t hate you. I hate lies.

  17. Hi Martin,

    Actually, I was referring to the millenial reign of Christ in Israel when I referred to the “Lords country”

    A worsening economy coupled with a possible impending civil war over gun control here will likely prevent us from meeting this side of the resurrection.

    Pray for the brethren stuck here if you would.

  18. I was with you all the way until the last part of your comment. Whether Heston was Jewish or not is irrelevant. Hopefully there was no intention on your part to convey an anti Jewish prejudice.

  19. The Magen David may have been an occult symbol in the dim and distant past; indeed, some may still use it in that way. When Herzog began the Zionist movement in 1870 he chose this symbol from among those traditionally used by Jewish communities of both Sephardic and Ashkenazi streams. Whether it has any connection with David or not I’m not able to say. But I rather doubt it. In the same way in spiritist churches there are crosses, but no one born again and following Christ could ever attribute those crosses to Christ and his followers.

    Let’s be quite clear, anti semitism is not perceived, it’s very real, and again growing in strength across the western world. Yet I would concede some people are a little to sensitive to the possibility of anti semitism.

    As far as Heston being Jewish is concerned, I have not found any extant records indicating that. Quite the reverse in fact. Like Onesimus, I say it’s largely irrelevant.

    As far as the remainder of your post is concerned, I’m right with you, if a little before you. I don’t see, hear or acknowledge modern prophets. Indeed, I find their twisting and turning better than most comedy acts, but they make nearly as much money! Doubtless I’ll miss something here, and really I don’t despise prophecy, but I do abhor money making from people’s misery and, like you, lies. The problem today is, seeing truth from lies!

  20. I certainly will pray for the brethren. However, I must say the brethren in the USA have a choice of action as much as we Brits do. Seemingly a great many Christians (?) elected the President for their personal gain rather than spiritual reasons, so, as with us Brits, and we ended up with … Cameron. So to some extent we are all responsible to our actions, believe a lie, as fed by a politician or seek ye after the truth.

    Your gun control machinations have nothing to do with Sandy Bank; Obama signed that control into law before the massacre, and signed it in a UN charter also. In fact, this was Obama’s first act on returning to the Whitehouse after the result was declared.

    In all frankness, you’ve got yourselves to blame, and … you’re trying the take the remainder of the West down with you. And that whilst there is no rational case been made for gun control or no gun control. It’s just hysteria!

  21. Hi Martin,

    Yes, the brethren do have a choice here. Revelation 18:4

    Many are working on that very thing because things here are getting very weird. Jesus said when they persecute you in one city that we should flee to the next and I believe it wont be long before Christians start getting persecuted here.

    As far as voting… I haven’t voted in many years as it’s an exercise in futility.and also not required in the US. The whole world is under the sway of the wicked one and its rulers surely are as well.

    The president doesn’t have constitutional authority to ban rights guaranteed to all Americans under it. There has been no gun law signed by him in any event. It would first have to go through Congress and nothing did at or around that time.

    Also, check out Snopes in regard to the UN gun control treaty, it never happened.


    But it is true that Americans have themselves to blame for everything that will occur at some point in the future.

    Like I said, I don’t own guns and couldn’t see myself shooting someone in self defense even if I did. I would rather they take my life. I’ve had enough of this crazy world at this point.

    And once the US does fall, it wont take the rest of the west down. Although I’m sure that our leaders are trying.

    Lastly, I know it’s difficult to grasp not having lived in a constitutional republic but all the arguments concerning gun control are easily resolved by the second amendment.

    The founders of the country defined that and the other 9 amendments to the bill of rights as rights that are inalienable.

    Inalienable means unable to be removed by any means whatsoever.

    Not by the will of the president, not by congress, not by the senate and not by the supreme court.

    Jefferson said “free people claiming their rights, as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate”

    Also, the Supreme Court has ruled in 2008 that the constitution guarantees the individual right to bear arms in the following case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

    What they are trying to do is do away with the constitution altogether as it stands as too great a barrier to despotism.

    I am aware that these rights that exist today here will not exist under the coming lawless one as we will be overcome and killed.

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