03
Dec
12

The “14 Predictions” Apology: We’re still waiting!


Quote Andrew Strom (December 2011):

“Can I ask you a simple question please, Tim.

If the NBER officially declares that another Recession began in 2011 (they won’t announce this until 2012 – there is a long delay in these announcements) – if they state this – then will you apologise to me?”

See here for full statement and context:

http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/the-douple-dip-depression-in-charts/#comment-19307

My observations Decmebr 2012.

I may be jumping the gun a little. We still have most of December ahead of us – so it’s still possible that the NBER could “officially declare that another Recession began in 2011”, but they are leaving it a little late. So it seems unlikely to me that Andrew Strom’s financial prophecies will be proven accurate.

Maybe he’ll yet deliver that public apology that he promised as part of his prediction

“1 APRIL 2010: ‘If this ‘second wave down’ has not occurred by the end of 2011 then I will need to issue a public apology to the Body of Christ.’” From  Andrew Strom’s “Fourteen Predictions”

http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/the-douple-dip-depression-in-charts/#comment-19294

How long?

(I have been in personal contact with Andrew Strom regarding this matter and he continues to insist he is right with his prediction, despite the continued silence from his chosen “referee”.  I also note that the thread related to the above links has been deleted, so the links no longer work, so for a partial context see here, where there is a link to the 14 Predictions on Andrew’s Revivalschool site: https://onesimusfiles.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/false-prophecy-and-the-role-ofsecular-experts/ )

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30 Responses to “The “14 Predictions” Apology: We’re still waiting!”


  1. 1 Martin
    December 3, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    I’ve just read the entire thread referenced above. Nothing there has changed my mind. Most modern prophecy is like roulette, bet on a certain number in the hope it comes up; if it doesn’t, just slide out of the casino with as little personal damage as possible.

    As I consider many of the ‘words’ spoken to people on JBTV in personal revelation it is quite clear almost all of those people are deluded in some way, such are the contradictions expressed.

    Then there is the issue of, who do I believe, who do I trust? Man’s words are so fallible, as I’ve found out to my deep personal cost. Few there are who really speak the mind of God, and even fewer are known to me.

    Having once suffered deeply under one person’s prophecy, I’m so very careful of the words that I listen to, and even more of the words I hear.

  2. December 4, 2012 at 7:50 am

    Martin, the “roulette” comparison is a good one. Compulsive gamblers can be driven by the rare win, blinding themselves to the consequences of their accumulating losses.

    Some are so addicted to “prophecy” that they ignore countless failed (therefore false) prophecies, or make excuses for the failures – all due to the hope of being “in the know” or having some kind of divine insight, being set apart from the common (ignorant) man.

    To change the analogy from gambling to sport…

    Above I mentioned Strom’s chosen referee. Now that the referee hasn’t ruled in Strom’s favour, he has deemed the judgement of that referee is irrelevant.

    This is a common response of false prophets and their followers: a continual changing of the rules and standards to make their “prophecies” fit experience. Andrew Strom not only changes the rules and moves the goal posts, he ignores the referee he himself appointed as the arbiter.

  3. 3 Martin
    December 4, 2012 at 8:56 am

    Onesimus, are we not dealing here with the matter of faith, as described in Hebrews. The knowledge of things unseen. God demands faith in this New Covenant, much more so than in the Old. Is this not the qualifier? Believe, faith and trust …

    In the simplest of terms, if we accept that the Holy Spirit is speaking endlessly to our ears, guiding, leading,comforting then is this faith, or is this something else? We have the written Word, don’t we?

    Methinks this may be something else.

    Prophecy is, in my understanding, much the same. Given God, as He says, does nothing without telling His prophets first, expects us to hear the prophets, and act accordingly. It’s so very easy to read Jeremiah, Ezekiel et al and say to ourselves, if we lived in those days we would have heard them …

    But would we?

    Are we hearing the true prophets of God in these days, or are we hearing the profits?

    Aahh!! Thereby hangs a tale no one will tell. There’s the matter of reputation and money and much else besides…. Book sales, CD’s, conferences and do I smell a great con here. Me thinks I do.

    I suffered in my first marriage when, at David Watson’s church in York, a ‘freelance’ prophet took the floor, looked straight at me, and announced to the world I was an adulterer, a partaker of many women and others (?) whilst I was married. The damage that caused to a marriage already fragile through my wife’s severe depression, and the slur that I was homosexual, cannot be told. And that toward a man who took Jesus seriously and never looked at another woman with lustful intent, and most certainly had no inclinations towards men.

    Prophecy? Oh dear, there’s now so much of it around, and so many people are so gullible, because they want to be so.

    So often have I repeated the words to me of a Methodist minister from thirty something years ago, a Godly man whom I loved as a brother … let’s be careful of the things of God.

    And when we are, well, we find ourselves very much alone in this world. Guess what? I like being alone … my my Saviour and me. Yes, I’m a Jesus and me, and have profited enormously from that state. Bring it on!!

  4. December 4, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    You are right, Tim. I do apologise. It is clear that I was mistaken to think that the USA would enter its “double dip” in the year 2011. Instead, it was the Eurozone, Japan, China and the UK that entered the double dip by the end of 2011 – ie. most of the world economy. It appears that the “first wave” in 2008 started in the USA and spread to the other nations. But the “second wave” seems to have started in the Eurozone and spread back from there. This I did not understand when I spoke to you. So I apologize without reservation. Please forgive me, my friend.

    But let me clarify-

    Is the world economy (especially the leading nations) in a “Depression”? – Yes – I believe most will come to see it as that. Certainly the worst Recession and Downturn in 80 years. Many will call it a “2nd Depression” in hindsight.

    Is it a “Double Dip” Depression? – Yes . Much of the world is in the “second wave” now.

    Does it have “years” to go? – Yes – definitely.

    Will it get worse? – Yes – definitely.

    So what is my apology for?

    -For telling Tim that I believed the USA would be in its “second wave down” by the end of 2011. It was simply most of the other nations rather than the USA. But the USA is still caught in the same “wave down”.

    All of this will become clearer and clearer.

    As I said, if this whole decade-long crisis is not seen in the end as one huge “Double Dip Depression”, I will be glad to apologize.

    Bless you all.

    -Andrew Strom.

  5. December 5, 2012 at 7:10 am

    Andrew, your apology wasn’t required for telling ME that you ” believed the USA would be in its “second wave down” by the end of 2011.

    As part of your 14 predictions you yourself offered to apologise publicly if this hadn’t happened by the end of 2011.

    Its not to ME you need to apologise but to your mailing list, your blog and to all of those to whom you sent your 14 Predictions (which you now seem to have deleted from your jtbtv site).

    That’s an essential part of accountability.

  6. December 5, 2012 at 7:52 am

    The 14 Predictions are still up on my site and will remain there.
    At no time did the “14 Predictions” include a clause that the 2nd wave down would begin in “America” before the end of 2011. The Prediction was simply that the 2nd wave down would begin by the end of that year. We now know that it began massively in the Eurozone, UK, China and Japan – infecting the USA but not yet bringing that nation into actual ‘Double-dip Recession’ by the end of that year. But close to it. (And still headed down now).

    Tim – your biggest problem is that you judge things from an “Australian” point of view. If you were in Europe in 2011, you would know what it means to find yourself in the most ugly, scarey economic storm in living memory. And it has been getting worse and worse and worse – infecting the whole globe.

    Below is what Wikipedia says about this 2008-2012 (and ongoing) worldwide crisis. You can argue with Wikipedia if you want. By the end of this decade I believe it will be clear to all that we have lived through a literal “Double Dip Depression”. Very clear. Wikipedia says this-

    “2008–2012 global recession
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    “The 2008–2012 global recession, sometimes referred to as the late-2000s recession, the Great Recession,[1] the Lesser Depression,[2] or the Long Recession,[3] is a marked global economic decline that began in December 2007 and took a particularly sharp downward turn in September 2008. The global recession affected the entire world economy, with higher detriment in some countries than others. It is a major global recession characterized by various systemic imbalances and was sparked by the outbreak of the Financial crisis of 2007–2008. The economic side effects of the European sovereign debt crisis,[4] accompanied with slowing US[5] and Chinese growth [6] continues to provide obstacles…”

    Tim – I have already apologized to you for my comment to you that I believed America would be in its “Double Dip” by the end of 2011. I apologized unreservedly for this. But please remember – that comment was never part of my “14 Predictions”. It was just a comment directed at you.

    None of the 14 Predictions has yet proved untrue.

    The Depression continues. It is getting worse again. It is lasting “years and years” just as I said. And most of the world was in the “2nd wave down” by the end of 2011.

    Read through all 14 again, my friend.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  7. December 5, 2012 at 8:07 am

    Andrew, the thread I referred to in my links has been deleted from your jtbtv site. The thread in which you ask:
    “Can I ask you a simple question please, Tim.
    If the NBER officially declares that another Recession began in 2011 (they won’t announce this until 2012 – there is a long delay in these announcements) – if they state this – then will you apologise to me?”

    The NBER, a group foucusing on AMERICA has made no such declaration – so you now change your focus to Europe and elsewhere, effectively changing the goal posts AND the referee you had previously established.

    The 14 Prediction thread on your revivalschool site remains.

    That thread is about the US financial situation. The “world” gets a parenthetical mention at the beginning of the thread and other nations get a brief mention elsewhere in a sentence or two. But the article as a whole is clearly referring to the US situation.

  8. December 5, 2012 at 9:02 am

    THE 14 PREDICTIONS – by Andrew Strom.

    Here they are below-

    Below is a timeline of the specific warnings that we published from
    2001 to 2010…

    SEPT 11, 2001: “The HORNS of American financial power have
    fallen, have fallen…” [-About the Twin Towers].

    JUNE 2003: “Revival is going to come in the midst of judgments
    the like of which you’ve never seen, and God is going to touch
    your economy…” (-’Thundering in Nashville’).

    14 DEC 2006: “Let me make some predictions at this point, so
    I can be clear about what this country is facing:
    (1) Firstly, I believe it is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid Judgment…
    (2) Expect a great economic crash – and expect it SOON.

    MARCH 14, 2007: “Eight months ago we began to publish warnings
    about the bursting of this Housing bubble, and the likely impact it
    would have… saying that in many ways it would be God’s MERCY –
    to shock us out of our complacency and apathy – and to cause us
    to desperately seek His face.”

    NOV 8, 2007: “I continue to stand by my statement of many
    months ago that within 3 years this nation will be in a terrible
    financial depression – possibly the worst that it has ever seen.
    Right now, things are right on track to see this fulfilled.”

    NOV 2007, Wisconsin USA: “This is the last good Christmas
    America will have for years….
    “Here’s my scenario. You can test me. You can remember what
    I’m saying right now…. See if it plays out how I say. In six months
    time I expect Recession in the United States. In 12 months time
    I expect the beginning of a Depression.” (-AUDIO – ‘Survive the
    Coming Depression – Nov 07′ on Sermonindex.net).

    10 MONTHS LATER – Sept/Oct 2008 – The two largest Mortgage
    giants in the world (Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac) fail, the largest
    Insurance Company and the largest thrift bank in the USA both
    collapse, Lehman Brothers goes bankrupt (almost taking the entire
    financial system with it), Money Markets reel, the Investment
    banking industry crumbles, and the stock market suffers its
    worst-ever one-day loss, plunging 777 points in a single day.

    24 SEPT 2008: “The DEPRESSION HAS BEGUN”.

    BACK-TRACK – 31 JAN 2008: “My strong belief is that, particularly
    in America, this crisis is going to be WORSE than the GREAT
    DEPRESSION. And it is going to last for YEARS. Other developed
    nations, such as England, Ireland, Spain, Canada, Germany and
    even Australasia, are going to be very hard-hit also. China, India
    and much of Asia will be pounded at first, but I believe will recover
    faster…. I believe that Christians in America need to face the fact
    that they are about to live through one of the WORST 5 – 7 year
    periods that this country has ever seen by far. And they need to
    be preparing NOW.”

    OCT 2008: “I am convinced this “breaking” is not merely financial
    in nature. It is also aimed at the church, the media and the culture…
    We are about to see another ‘Great Reformation’.” (-From Andrew’s
    book, ‘SURVIVE THE DEPRESSION’, Oct 2008).

    OCT 2008: “When I was down in Mississippi after Hurricane Katrina
    there was one Spirit-filled Fellowship that was “thriving” in the midst
    of the chaos. They had filled their sanctuary with food, clothes, and
    emergency supplies of all kinds – and they were ministering to
    hundreds… I cannot tell you how important this is, if we want to
    “thrive” – not just “survive” – through this current crisis… So will you
    be a “light shining in the darkness” during this present crisis, my
    friends?” (-Book ‘SURVIVE THE DEPRESSION’, Oct 2008).

    20 DEC 2008: “The WORST of the slump is set to last for… 7 years.”

    10 APRIL 2009: “A “DOUBLE DIP” DEPRESSION .. The phrase
    “A Double-Dip Depression” has been on my heart for many months,
    so it is no surprise to see a temporary respite. But we need to be
    aware that it is simply an illusion – so we don’t get lulled back to
    sleep and cease to prepare for what lies ahead.

    18 JUNE 2009: “We stated not long ago our belief that we are
    headed for a “Double-Dip” Depression… I do believe there will be
    a further ‘wave’ downwards, and we need to keep preparing – both
    physically and spiritually.”

    1 APRIL 2010: “If this ‘second wave down’ has not occurred by
    the end of 2011 then I will need to issue a public apology to the
    Body of Christ.”
    [END]

    The one thing you are right about, Tim, is that I failed to see that the “first wave down” started in the USA – but that the “2nd wave” would start in Europe and head back. I was not aware it would work this way.

    But at no time does the “14 Predictions” state where this “2nd wave down” would start. So it is not a big deal in the overall scenario.

    This is a GLOBAL crisis. Was a large portion of the globe already in Recession and a “2nd wave down” by the end of 2011? YES! The official pronouncements have already confirmed this. And it is getting worse.

    Remember – I have stated this crisis will not end until at LEAST 2015 – but more likely 2018-19.

    It is a decade-long crisis and I truly believe you cannot judge it until it is done.

    Since the world economy is still headed down, it is clear you are “rushing to judgment” far too early.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  9. December 5, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Andrew, people can read what you said. They can read what you promised. Unfortunately they can no longer read some of your other comments that confirmed that your “before the end of 2011” timetable referred to the USA. They have been deleted, making the links in my post inactive.

    You asked to be held accountable. Others as well as myself attempted to hold you to that accountability. You resisted, your tried to redirect focus – and until the apology above you refused to admit any hint of a mistake.

    I have no doubt that more serious financial troubles are ahead, but I would not put a date on when that would happen. The whole economic system (national and internationsl) is a house of cards built on shifting sand. It wouldn’t much to bring it all crashing down – and it needs no prophetic insight to see that.

  10. December 5, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Yes – but it did need prophetic insight to preach it in 2006, my friend. Which is when I started preaching a lot of this specific stuff.

    When I post a “prophecy” I post it to the whole world. I did this time and time again with the “14 Predictions” – starting in 2001. I am very glad to post an apology to the whole world if they are wrong.

    When I post a comment in reply to your (very barbed) comments, I am very glad to apologise to you personally if I was wrong in any way. This I have done, my friend. But by no means was that a “published prophecy”. It was a comment directed at YOU in a discussion thread where you were attacking me. The call that the “2nd wave down” would begin before the end of 2011 was absolutely correct. I just did not see that it would begin in Europe, UK, Japan and China – and only then begin to spread to the US. In this I was wrong in my comments to you. And for this I have apologized.

    The “14 Predictions” still stand. I retract nothing from them and I will not be apologizing for them unless they are proven WRONG. They are my “PUBLIC PUBLISHED PROPHECIES” sent out to all my subscribers. Thus far they have been proven RIGHT.

    God bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  11. December 5, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Andrew,
    It’s not a matter of “if” you were “wrong in anyway” – you WERE wrong. Your predictions were all focused on America with a brief side reference to the rest of the world.

    And your prediction was not that a “2nd wave down” would begin somewhere in the world before the end of 2011. Anyone wanting to know what you actually predicted can read for themselves and judge whether there is any bending and shifting going on to make your predictions fit the facts.

  12. December 5, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Absolutely. Let them read.

    The “14 Predictions” are posted above.

    Take a read and see whether or not this crisis is beginning to look like exactly what is there. And remember, it is a “long-term” prophecy to be fulfilled over a period of YEARS. And currently still unfolding.

    Bless you!

    Andrew Strom.

  13. 13 UnprofitableServant
    December 10, 2012 at 12:51 am

    But Tim…..

    Will YOU apologise if your assertations concerning the secular state of Israel are proven wrong?

    Get educated…..

    Like so….

    Zionists are the Worst Anti-Semites

    And rather than beating around the bush any longer….

    You sir are STILL infected with Dispensationalism although you think you’re not…

    There’s a whole lot more to Dispensationalism than just the pre-trib “rapture” heresy….

  14. December 10, 2012 at 7:34 am

    Unprofitable one,
    No apology from me on that matter will be necessary.

    Your bigoted ignorance blinds you to so many things as does your obsession with conspiracies.

    No UPS, there isn’t a single dispensationalist influence in anything I believe. I especially do not believe the Dispensationalist view of the future of Israel which separates Israel’s future from the future of the church.

    My views on Israel have been shaped by study of scripture. I am totally confident that scriptural prophecies and scriptural promises related to Israel will be fulfilled as written. Israel will be returned to the land God promised them and Israel will recognise their Messiah and enter the new covenant through faith in Him

    Nations do not arise and fall by the will of man. Their borders are not set by man.
    Your above comment (with link deleted) is the last of your anti-Israel rants to be posted to this blog, so don’t waste your time.

  15. December 12, 2012 at 7:11 am

    UPS,
    I’ve deleted yet another of your ill-informed comments. You continue to rake over old ground, making the same ill-informed accusations about me being ” infected with dispensationalism”.

    I have absolutely no time for any dispensationalist beliefs and I have no time for Scofield. My beliefs about Israel are vastly different from those held by dispensationalists. I’ve spelled out those beliefs time and again to make that clear.

    But you are blinded by your anti-Israelism and your devotion to conspiracy theories (is it coincidental that so many popular “conspiracies” are rooted in anti-semitism?).

  16. 16 UnprofitableServant
    December 13, 2012 at 7:02 am

    Facts are not sentient beings, facts can’t have feelings or opinions. It logically follows, then, that facts are incapable of being antisemitic.

  17. December 13, 2012 at 7:12 am

    The following link has nothing to do with the topic of my post – but it is relevant to some of the comments I’ve received (some of which I’ve chosen to delete).

    http://dailyminyan.com/2012/12/12/antisemitic-quote-of-the-day-2/

  18. 18 UnprofitableServant
    December 13, 2012 at 11:02 am

    The statement at that link is true.

    But I would have added that there will be a remnant of the natural branches that will be saved.

    Romans 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved.

    Romans 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

  19. December 13, 2012 at 11:41 am

    So you agree with that “anti-semitic quote of the day” and agree with its replacement theology viewpoint.

    I believe that remnant is the “all Israel” that Paul states will be saved. It fits in with Amos who spoke of a shaking of Israel, like through a sieve, during which ” the sinners among my people will die by the sword”. After this the return of Israel to the promised land will be completed – currently the majority of Israel remains in exile “among all the nations”.

    As Paul says, ” not all who are descended from Israel are Israel”. That shaking mentioned in Amos is like a final “separating of the wheat from the chaff” which will reveal the remnant (the all Israel) who will be saved. The rest are those who continue their resistance to and their rejection of the Lord.

  20. 20 UnprofitableServant
    December 14, 2012 at 2:48 am

    Yes, I do agree with that quote, although I wouldn’t call it “anti-semetic”…. The truth is the truth is the truth.

    And as Zechariah states, two thirds will die before the remnant mentioned in the shaking in Amos is saved…

    Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass in all the land,” Says the Lord, “That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:

    But the average citizen of Israel has been set up for this by their Herodian and Pharisee leaders just like the Jews in the time of Christ were deceived into rejecting their Messiah.

    The majority of the blame for the deaths of two thirds of the population of Israel will fall on their ungodly leaders.

    Like it or not, even Paul states that the majority of Jews were “cut off” and superceded by the Gentiles… although he cautions us to not be haughty but to instead be fearful lest we be cut off as well.

    Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

  21. December 14, 2012 at 7:17 am

    The account in Zechariah fits with Amos’s account of those dying by the sword. It will be a worldwide event exceeding the horrors of the holocause – an event inspired by increased anti-semitism, the seeds of which can be seen at work in the world today.

    I’m not surprised that you wouldn’t call that quote “anti-semitic”, but personally I leave that judgement to the Jewish believer who who labelled it as anti-semitic on his blog.

  22. 22 UnprofitableServant
    December 15, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Yes, of course Zechariah fits with Amos. It’s just that the events in Zechariah occur first as far as only one third left.

    Regardless whether I disagree with that quote as being anti-semetic, I would still treat a Jew in the time of Jacobs trouble as Corre Ten Boom did.

    One can know the truth about world events and still treat those responsible with love.

    BTW, big news in the conspiracy dept…

    Alex Jones recently hired an ex Stratfor employee to be an editor at infowars….

    Stratfor is a front company for a certain three letter agency and as such, many, including myself, have distanced themselves from him and his site…

    Nevertheless, there are conspiracies that happen in the world every day. Some bigger than others. And there is also disinfo. I simply examine things I read by verifiable sources and reject what I find to be false.

  23. December 17, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    This article refers to the recent kindergarten shootings:
    http://au.news.yahoo.com/full-coverage/connecticut-shooting/a/-/article/15659440/gunmans-mothers-doomsday-prepper/

    This statement stands out reading the murderer’s mother, his first victim.

    “The Daily Mail reports Ms Lanza stockpiled weapons and food for what she saw as America’s coming economic collapse.”

  24. December 17, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Alex Jones? Stratfor? infowars? All mean nothing to me and I’m not interested in having that “ignorance” changed. All of that is at best an irrelevant distraction and at worst an encouragement to swallow lies.

    The Zechariah and Amos prophecies referred to are all part of the same end time anti-semitic campaign.

  25. 25 UnprofitableServant
    December 18, 2012 at 3:28 am

    Amaruca’s economy will certainly collapse at some point, and not because false prophet Andrew Strom says so, but because of its Fiat Currency.

    Nothing to do with conspiracy there, only mathamatical certainties that violate the bacis laws of responsible economics…

    Just like a father that blows his paycheck on booze instead of providing for his family, eventually the family will become destitute and homeless…..

  26. December 18, 2012 at 7:26 am

    Any economy based on greed, increased consumption and needing perpetual growth will eventually fail. It’s only a matter of time.

  27. December 19, 2012 at 8:03 am

    But facts can be distorted and manipulated and combined with lies to express an anti-semitic viewpoint.

  28. 28 Marleen
    February 1, 2013 at 3:04 am

    I knew the mother had some guns, Onesimus, but I had not heard she “stockpiled weapons and food for what she saw as America’s coming economic collapse.” That’s good to know. That’s a “spirit” (whether literal or in ambiance) that can infect. I’s not bad to have some extra stuff (canned food, toilet paper), but is bad to get all worked up about it.

    Our problem has been dishonesty and a greed based in fooling the public (Ayn Randianism, not a missing gold/alternate fiat system and not bustling business other than those self-aggrandizing thieves who corroded our safeguards from the inside but don’t look so much like criminals because they wear suits and pal around with people like Trump).


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