19
Jul
12

What is the REAL problem?


Recently I posted some thoughts relating to an article on Andrew Strom’s blog. Several accusations levelled against Andrew in comments following his article included terms like “socialist” and marxist”.  Here I offer a few of my own thoughts about the use of those terms.

“Socialism” “Marxist” “liberalism”etc. are the evil straw-man enemies that people have been conditioned to throw around whenever the “American way” and American spiritual mythology is questioned. It dates back to the 1950s and McCarthyism – when a onetime ally (Communist Russia) came to be more valuable as an enemy to be feared and abhorred.

Socialism is deemed evil because the idle poor allegedly devote themselves to handouts from the rich – removing their responsibility and motivation to work.

This of course differs greatly from Capitalism and its support of an idle rich whose wealth is maintained through the work of the poor. (And if the local poor expect too much payment for their labour, the rich can always outsource their work to nations where poor labourers can be “hired” for practically nothing).

NEITHER of these political ISMs is the answer. But also NEITHER of these political ISMs is THE problem.

THE problem is GODLESSNESS – which is not only the denial of God (as in communist Russia), it is also the adoption of OTHER things in place of a God who we may profess to acknowledge (as in the USA).

We can sing God’s praises with our lips while displaying Godlessness with our attitudes and actions.

The elevation of ANY political ideology is one such act of godlessness. The idolising of any nation is equally an expression of Godlessness.

God requires ALL of our allegiance – not just the bit left over after we’ve stood hand over heart saluting the flag of an earthly kingdom.

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32 Responses to “What is the REAL problem?”


  1. 1 Chris Strom
    July 19, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    It is amazing that so many American Christians see Obama as a terrible disaster of a President. They feel its their Christian duty to complain and campaign. Contrast that with Paul’s attitude towards “President” Nero. How wd America like a Pres who dressed himself in animal skins and roved around the streets at night attacking people? If anyone resisted, Nero wd kill them and throw their bodies in the Tiber River. Obama seems oh so tame, don’t you think?

    So Paul wd rouse all Christians to their obvious civic duty to overthrow such a tyrant, right? Wrong! In the whole of his letter to the Roman Christians, Paul hasn’t a single criticism of Nero and NO stirring to political action whatsoever. NONE. Paul instead gives the most thorough study of THE GOSPEL. That’s where Paul’s heart is–EVANGELISM. He’s not interested in politics–that is so temporary. Paul’s mind is on ETERNAL goals–winning people for Christ for all eternity.

    The only political advice God gave through Paul was passive, compliant, uncomplaining ACCEPTANCE of whoever was in power–BECAUSE GOD HAD PUT THEM THERE–Read Romans 13:1-7. A nation gets the leader it deserves. If America has a bad leader, that’s because America DESERVES a bad leader. You reap what you sow. Are you trying to get rid of God’s rightful punishment on your nation? Remove the CAUSES of that punishment, not its God-appointed punisher. Or else you will be attacking God!

    If American Christians were already feeding and housing and clothing America’s poor, God wd not raise up a President to do it for them. But Americans are famous for their “high standard of living”–a lifestyle of luxury half the world can hardly imagine. Solomon in all his glory never imagined owning a computer or TV or iPhone or DVDs or even a humble second-hand car. Almost all Americans are far far far FAR more wealthy that Solomon ever dreamed of being.

    What you are born with you think is normal. And anything less is a “Recession”! And if it persists, that must be a “Depression”! Ha! Half the world has never experienced the LUXURY of what Americans called their Great Recession. SOLOMON NEVER OWNED A FRIDGE. HE NEVER HEARD A RADIO OR SAW A MOVIE. And you are deprived?

    Most Americans have never had things so good as under President Obama. I’ve heard many Americans say that under President Reagan was a Golden Age. Oh come off it–you didn’t even own a computer! No DVDs or iPads or iPods. You drove a 1980s car. If you got some illnesses, you died. Today you’ll be cured.

    Americans are blind to reality. Satan has blinded their eyes to just how incredibly blessed they are. He fills their heart with hatred for a God-appointed leader and revels in the lack of prayer and evangelising going on. Politics instead of prayer. Political activism instead of evangelism. Satan is alive and well in Christian America.

  2. July 19, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Loved your comment on Reagan’s Presidency:
    “…You drove a 1980s car…”

    It was even funnier than a claim I read elsewhere about America’s greatness displayed by the fact that you can:
    “go to the retail stores in small cities that are far removed from major population centers and find goods from every continent on the globe, but more importantly [can] see people at that small town who also have immigrated from every continent on the globe”

  3. July 19, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Do you really think this president is taking care of the poor? If so you are greatly fooled, he factually is creating a lot more poor… just to clarify. But, I don’t altogether disagree with you on a lot of points, and I don’t altogether agree on some things either. There’s usually two sides with a lot, or at least some, truth. Then there’s the truth, and each person has to be led by God who know Him… and let the fleshly do what they will. I don’t give anyone an absolute blueprint to follow concerning what they should or should not be doing politically, although I do realize some think politics will save them.. and some know better. A lot are just doing as proverbs 29:2 says they will, and that being they are groaning simply because the wicked are bearing rule, and I can recognize wickedness and lawlessness when I see it. I am sensitive to evil.

    I personally will stay close to God and walk in the spirit and keep Him first, because He is enabling my husband and I to help and minister to those who are being affected by this governments policies, and it is causing them to look to Jesus, so that is wonderful.
    There will always be a type of Goshen when things get dark.. but I do pray for more workers in the harvest because people are more open than ever to the gospel. That’s all I’ll say on this subject.

  4. July 19, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    PS.. One more thing I wanted to add: Be very careful that what you observe happening here in America doesn’t become something you mock or ridicule from afar, or you may find yourself in a worse state, none of us deserve the mercy and grace we’ve been shown.

  5. 5 Chris Strom
    July 19, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Jamie, I think Obama is trying to feed the poor, but an antagonistic Congress is blocking him. Meantime many will be kept alive by foodstamps, funded by the American taxpayer. I saw the poor exampled by a teenager dressed fabulously apparently sleeping in a car Hitler and Stalin wd never have imagined the quality of in their wildest dreams. Half the population of the world wd have asked if that poor downtrodden deprived child was a Prince living in a portable palace.

  6. July 19, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Why affected by “this governments policies”? Are any other goverrnment’s policies less detrimental? And are Obama and his administration “ruling” in a vaccuum making them solely responsible for all policy and how it works? Can he push through any reform he wants without threat of having it blocked?

    What about the policies of his predecessors under whose policies the Global Financial Crisis was possible?

    I’d say that Obama and the democrats are no better or worse than the republicans or republican Presidents.

    Politics and politicians are not the problem, they are not the cause of the problem. They represent a highly flawed secular society to whom God will give the leader who will serve HIS purposes. That purpose may well be the downfall of that society.

    What many see as sin within society are often in fact God’s judgement on society as He gives them over the those things they have chosen above Him. (Rom 1 & 2)

    Rather than focus on politicians and their faults, we should learn to recognise what God OUR leader is doing via those politicians who lead a fallen people and learn to see God’s judgement at work instead of just seeing the failings of politicians.
    If we don’t we may find ourselves railing against God’s appointed man and God’s appointed judgements.

  7. July 19, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    To most of the rest of the world America is not so “afar” as you might think. While America has little understanding of what goes on in other places, we in those other places have been exposed to America and American culture for decades.

    As I recently told a friend, if a cat sneezes in America (if someone caught it on video) it will make Prime-time news around the rest of the world.

    While that is a clear exaggeration, it is not too far from the truth.

  8. 8 Chris Strom
    July 19, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Yes, Tim makes many good points–and you do too Jamie. Tim asks:

    “What about the policies of his predecessors under whose policies the Global Financial Crisis was possible?”

    Exactly. Anti-Obama people gloss over the fact that the massive economic downturn happened under Bush–Obama inherited Bush’s mess. Bush very wisely chose Bernanke to rescue America from the threat of a Depression even worse than the Great Depression. Bernanke did so brilliantly that Obama wisely kept him on, and he has kept America just out of recession ever since. What a brilliant man!

    Andrew was right. We shd have had a Depression lasting 5 to 7 years. Bernanke’s policies stopped that from happening. I thank God for Bernanke. I believe he was God’s chosen man prayed into place by praying Christians all around the world for such a time as this! Thank You Jesus!

  9. July 19, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Tim my comment on this presidents “policies” was in reply to Chris mentioning all the good he is doing over here, but then you told me it was a spiritual problem…. well sure it is, but it was taken out of that vain when I heard all the good things Obama is doing, hence my reply.

  10. July 19, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    So Obama is doing no good at all?
    He is totally evil in intent and practice? More so than any other secular politician representing a secular society?

  11. 11 Chris Strom
    July 19, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Jamie wrote:
    “One more thing I wanted to add: Be very careful that what you observe happening here in America doesn’t become something you mock or ridicule from afar, or you may find yourself in a worse state, none of us deserve the mercy and grace we’ve been shown.”

    It’s not the world that is mocking and ridiculing. It’s the exact opposite. We are aghast at the way American Christians mock and ridicule their own President. It is hard to believe the vindictiveness. At times I’ve feared for your President’s life. Even now, an apparently top commentator called “Rush” is saying that your President HATES America. Is this commentator sane? In any other country he wd be hauled to court to account for his malicious slander. NO President of the United States, of whatever party, has EVER hated his own country! When politics gets to this level of “mockery and ridicule” Christians shd take it in hand and stop such treatment of a President–ANY President–continuing.

  12. July 19, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Maybe Obama loves his children, or maybe that’s a farce too.. but yes, there is something especially wicked, arrogant and deceptive about Obama. I know you won’t accept my answer, Tim, because you seem to have a deep seeded hatred of America, and that’s ok but there are people here who do love the Lord, and you need to be more careful who you hit with the stones you guys are throwing. It’s one thing to point something out and discuss it, and another to rail against and ridicule. The spirit of this is tangibly wrong. You guys claim on Andrews blog that the way people reacted to Andrew proves they worship America, but they are mostly reacting to the judgment, arrogance and finger pointing. Maybe praying for the situation would prove more fruitful.
    You yourself have had the same problem with Andrews attitude, but because you agree with him you aren’t seeing that same spirit at work.

  13. July 19, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Chris, with that you have pinpointed the heart of the issue being addressed on Andrew’s blog.

    It’s not about policies (good or bad) – it is about the attitude and actions of professing Christians directed towards an elected leader – a leader they have been commanded to pray for; not to vilify or even to praise.

    PRAY for.

    Not so he will bring comfort and prosperity but for the freedom to preach the gospel.
    Note again PRAY for,

    Not lobby and badger and protest against…

  14. July 19, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Jamie, there is no “deep seated hatred of America”, just an abhorrence of the arrogance and pride associated with American nationalism which is unfortunately deeply rooted in American Christendom.

    And no, I am not agreeing with Andrew, we are just seeing very similar things – things that have been evident to me for many years.

    One of these things being how deeply Americans have had their thinking coloured by extreme political agendas and how that also has its effects in the church. Again, unfortunately, that thinking is somehow attributed to being compatible with God’s Kingdom instead of recognising it for the political bigotry that has been ingrained into American citizens for decades.

  15. 15 Chris Strom
    July 19, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Tim, the first thing is to say I don’t accuse Jamie of vilifying Obama. She has been commendably mild and has a political viewpoint, which is fine. To have a well-reasoned political viewpoint is commendable.

    Also I am not an Obama fan. I thought the way he treated Israel’s Prime Minister was reprehensible. I felt ashamed on behalf of all America. Like it or not, Israel is still central to God’s purposes in the world. I am delighted that the checks and balances put in place by America’s founding fathers have kept Obama’s anti-Israeli stance under control. I saw such warmth between Hillary Clinton and Prime Minister Netanyahu recently–it was a delight to see.

    But if only America wd do what you say and PRAY–there wd be revival sweeping America by now if only the PASSION for POLITICS cd be harnessed to PRAYER instead!

    You are so absolutely right! In 1 Timothy 2:1 Paul says “I exhort therefore FIRST OF ALL supplications, PRAYERS, INTERCESSIONS, giving of thanks, be made for all people, for Presidents (basileon) and all in authority that we may live a quiet and peaceable life in Godliness and honesty…” Then Paul talks of God wanting all to be saved. Such prayer creates the conditions by which people come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

    The PRIMACY of PRAYER!

  16. July 19, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    But many DO vilify Obama (which is one of the main points Andrew was addressing in his recent jtbtv article).

    Others will praise him.

    The same situation will be seen whoever the next President will be as it was when GW Bush was President.

    As you say – “if only the PASSION for POLITICS cd be harnessed to PRAYER instead!”

  17. 17 Chris Strom
    July 19, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Yes, PRAYER is the answer. I’m sure you agree, Jamie?
    I’m sure you are not one who believes your President HATES his country?
    Are you?

  18. July 20, 2012 at 8:55 am

    the colouring “by extreme politcal agendas” is one of the main points addressed in the article above. That “colouring” is revealed in the terminology used and the way it is used – just as a person’s theological conditioning is exposed by their favoured bible “proof” texts.

  19. July 20, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Regarding ‘Socialism’ and ‘Marxism’, they are very different from one another. In concept socialism may be compared accurately to the Judaean period of Christs ministry (the House of Israel conquered and having not returned at this time). The example is regarding people having adequately provided for the purposed traveling to Jerusalem, and having heard the great teacher, wanted to stay longer and learn. Similar local’s with property they could sell did so, turning the proceeds over to the common good of this community called the Way. Similar on the order of Paul saying, those that gathered much did not have to much, and those that gathered little did not have to little.

    Of the Russian ‘Bolsevick’ revolution, this certainly began by common citizen’s with this ‘socialist’ concept in mind, it soon however changed with Trotsky and Lenin within leadership of those taking control, and Stalin later (in Collectivism) seeing Trotsky as danger to his leadership, then had Trotsky expelled from Russia. Marxsim of literal fact would not be possible without an elite and mitilaristic regime in control. It might be properly related to Fascism, of which Mussolini said was the marriage of big-business and government… by the way, this is what Einstein and group of Jewish leaders (writing to the NY Times) called the new ‘State of Israel’, a fascist State.

    Socialism then is for the common good as those with gift/s and ability contributed as God enables, regardless it is convoluted in meaning by the secular, also it being the Kingdom of God and not the government’s (concept’s) of man obvious within the world in continuance. This regardless is a natural (of this world) and spiritual truth, just as the prayer Christ gave example, may it (Go’s good purpose) be done on earth as in heaven.

  20. July 20, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Thanks for your comment DeWayne.
    Unfortunately a lot of these terms are thrown around in ignorance in a totally inapropriate way. That wrong usage does nothing to add value to discussion – apart from exposing the level of cutltural conditioning a person has been affected by.

  21. 21 Chris Strom
    July 20, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    We were all delighted when the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) collapsed in the 1990s. “We will bury you!” the Russian Communists had told the Capitalist West. Instead, we saw them “buried.” It was a shame that Communist China didn’t follow suit. Instead, China wisely turned towards capitalism, allowing more and more private ownership, so that today China has many self-made millionaires. It seems the trend is continuing.

    In contrast, ALL capitalistic countries ALL have a level of socialism. ALL have a tax system. ALL take care of their most disadvantaged people. The question is solely the level of socialism. NZ used to have a smothering “cradle-to-the-grave” type of socialism that by the 1980s was seen to be a disincentive to private enterprise. The Labour Party that had brought in “the Welfare State” in 1935 dismantled it in 1985. Our political left became right wing.

    In America there is already a great deal of welfare. The great rise in foodstamps proves that. The question is not “no socialism in America”–but how much. Socialism is there, and there to stay. At what level do you begin to take from the rich to give to the poor? One party says set the level lower. The other party opposes any change.

    But face it–socialism, taxing the more well-off to pay the less fortunate has been a part of America’s governing structure for many decades under many Republican Presidents and Congresses. America has been and will continue to be socialistic in certain areas for the forseeable future. The only question to be decided is–how much?

  22. July 21, 2012 at 5:03 am

    You guys sound like you will be right at home in the coming one common world order utopia.. and you think Americans are polluted by politics? I will pray for you, Tim and Dewaye. Chris you sound a little more aware, but I will be lifting you guys up as time goes on. The reason there are actual Martyrs in the bible is because they go against the evils around them and are witnesses of Jesus Christ (John the Baptist), this is why governments and religious pharisees murder Christians, and will happen again.
    Tim the way you have presented yourself here shows me that you should be able to dwell safely and securely in the coming times on the earth, your government will love you and desire more citizens like you. If I have misunderstood, forgive me, but I don’t think I have and God knows I have nothing but amazement and sorrow in this. God bless you all.

  23. July 23, 2012 at 8:02 am

    Jamie, you have misunderstood. I forgive you.
    I’m sad that you don’t recognise the extent of “cultural conditioning” you have been subjected to. That conditioning is the reason for your misunderstanding.

    I am no more tolerant of the evils of government than you are. I just don’t point the finger at one particular political philosophy or one particular political leader. I also don’t follow the “national” line and swallow a national rhetoric.

    Obama is no more or less a problem than Bush before him.

    Also socialism is no more an evil than capitalism – and Obama is no more of a socialist than Bush was, and even if he was, THAT would not be the problem Americans need to be worried about.

    Godlessness is the problem.

    Tim

  24. July 23, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Jamie, you didn’t comment on this comment from a few days ago:

    “Yes, PRAYER is the answer. I’m sure you agree, Jamie?
    I’m sure you are not one who believes your President HATES his country?
    Are you?”

    Do you believe ANY American President has EVER hated his own country? Because the answer will say nothing abt them but a lot abt you.

  25. 25 jamiedm
    July 23, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    No Chris, repentance and turning fully to God and obeying Him is the answer.. even a heathen can mouth a powerless dead prayer. I have believed all alone the problem in this country is spiritual, but at the same time the Lord has allowed me to live in a place that I am free to be a witness to Him, and plan to steward that same freedom for my grandchildren IF there is a way made that I can, and if I cannot I am still free in Christ. I walk according to how the spirit leads me in all circumstances and they aren’t all set in the same mold, where as you seem to be a doctrinal Gnostic.
    You don’t even seem to be aware that governments CAN be against their people and country, or that history proves that out in the natural world as well as biblically.
    In your mind you must think that because no American president has ever hated his country then the same MUST apply to Barack Hussein Obama. That is a very naive ignorant stance. Then you try to intimidate and manipulate me by telling me in other words that if I think the man hates his country then it “says a lot about me”. I can say your line of thought says a LOT about you too, Chris. Gnostic.
    I really don’t care what you think of me, and yes I feel Obama is out for power and control, and is a wicked godless man who will do anything he has to- to keep power. I believe he hates the things that remind him of Gods order in the earth, and I think he hates little tiny unborn babies.. not that it matters to you guys because that is after-all considered in your minds as “political” and should be ignored because we aren’t of this world. Gnostic doctrine.

    I have walked with the Lord Jesus long enough to know that “sometime” the help God sends is in human form and natural means. Go pray now, Chris, that you never have to actually “do” anything that you consider as against the government to help someone out, or save their life. Plug up your ears when you pass an abortion clinic or sing loud in case one of the little fellas manages to make a noise, after all that is a political thing and might soil your good spiritual cleanliness and cause you to be called political by some man. Gnostic.

  26. July 23, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Read Romans 1 & 2 and you will find why the USA is in its current state – and it has nothing to do with Obama.
    Obama is a symptom not a cause – as Bush was before him.

    God has given America over to its sinful desires.

    The recent horrors in Colorado were also a symptom – a violent Godless nation reaping the violence it has sown around the world.
    Military violence and “Entertainment” violence.
    A nation that chooses violence will be given over to violence. A nation with little regard for the lives of others (and finds entertainment in death and cruelty) will not be “pro-life” in relation to its own babies.

    How many US “christians” will now speak up to defend their “God-given” right to bear arms when the inevitable discussion of arms control is raised again? How many of those “christians” spend as much time in prayer and preaching the gospel of GOD’s Kingdom?

    What is achieved through berating and speaking out against unbelieving politicians? What is achieved by berating them for acting like unbelievers? In particualr what is achieved by LYING about them and slandering them to make a point?

    Unbelieving politicans will act like unbelievers. They will promote Godlessness because they are without God. Some will just be more open and honest about the Godlessness they promote.

  27. July 23, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Yes, It says a lot abt you.

    Ever since Obama was elected I have heard how IN HIS FIRST YEAR he was going to make America Muslim–or Nazi–or Communist–or all three together!

    IT HASN’T HAPPENED! Such accusations are close to insane.

    There was never going to be another election. Obama was going to hijack the military and become Dictator. The army commanders wd of course just stand there while a politician took control of the nation’s armed forces–utterly insane–

    IT HASN’T HAPPENED! Where are all the apologies for all the appalling slanders against an ordinary run-of-the-mill President, no better or worse than many many others?

    HOW CAN YOU EXCUSE SUCH INSANE ACCUSATIONS IN YOURSELF AND OTHER “FELLOW CHRISTIANS”? What on earth do you think God feels abt these slanders?

    If–as is so obvious to all the world except American “Christians”–the election goes through exactly as planned–WILL ALL AMERICANS STAND UP AND ADMIT OBAMA WAS NOT THE EVIL MONSTER YOU ALL THOUGHT HE WAS? You have been brainwashed. Admit it. Admit that after nearly 4 years of rule America is much the same as under George W. Bush.

    Much American Christianity is hysterical and insane. American Presidents can not actually do anything like as much and the populace believes. In Obama’s case, a hostile Congress ensures that Obama will not accomplish much. Your Chief Justices have FAR FAR more influence.

    You are collectively ruining the standing of Christians in the world! American Christians by their insane Obama-attacks are destroying the good name of Jesus Christ!

  28. July 23, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Chris, we used to hear the same thing directed at true Christians for causing disunity in apostate and worldly institutional churches. “Shut up, shut up, you dis-unified haters! And now all the light has went out of them.
    Anyway, I am not a very political person but if I do get a chance to make a difference for anything good I will take it, I move freely.

    Tim, I hate quarreling in reality and will stop here.. it would be better and more understandable if we could talk face to face I’m sure. This is not always a good mode of communication and I want you and Chris to know I stand by what I have said but hold no bitterness at all towards you. I will bow out now.

  29. July 23, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Making a difference for good, whether relating to politics or the insititutional church requires TRUTH.

    Problems perceived need to be TRUE problems and solutions demanded need to be TRUE solutions. Anything else is controversy and disunity for the sake of controversy and disunity. Those controversies are at best a distraction and at worst the promotion of lies.

  30. July 23, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Tim, I wd never ever have believed a nice Christian like Jamie wd even consider calling their President a hater of his own country! What has happened to that great country I visited in 1982–ran the Boston Marathon–climbed the Statue of Liberty? What have the present generations done with the great heritage I witness first-hand 30 yrs ago? What have they done since to American democracy, where you get behind your President, regardless of which Party, and do you best for your country. YOU ACCEPT YOUR NATION’S CHOICE, JUST LIKE WE DO IN NZ, AUSTRALIA, UK… It’s called DEMOCRACY. You DON”T undermine it like a bunch of gangsters. You BOW to the WILL of the PEOPLE. You accept it–until next time!

    Vote! Vote by all means! Campaign to a degree, but FAIRLY, HONESTLY, knowing that GOD is witness to all you say! You will be held accountable “FOR EVERY IDLE WORD.” You had better be MIGHTY SURE before you decide to slander your country’s leader!

    Too many American Christians are being a disgrace to Democracy and a disgrace to the Jesus Christ who bought and paid for them with His own blood! Surely we had enough of slander and malicious lies in that Trial to last a thousand millienia! We don’t need any more!

    I repeat: THERE WILL BE AN ELECTION. THERE WILL NOT BE A COMMUNIST OR NAZI OR OR ANY OTHER KIND OF TAKE-OVER OF POWER. If Obama is voted out of power he will take it as graciously as Bush did.

    Stop being ridiculous! Wake up to what you are saying. In the sight of the whole world you crazy American hyper anti-Obama Christians are bringing disgrace on all of us. We Christians outside America want to disown being anything whatsoever like you. It is a travesty of the New Testament, a travesty of real Christianity! We may well DISAGREE with our country’s leaders, but we still WORK with that Government to make our country a BETTER PLACE.

  31. July 23, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Chris,
    I vote. In Australia it is compulsory.
    Whether the election is for state government or federal government I vote for the LOCAL candidate that seems to be the best one for the job of representing their (my) constituency.

    Party doesn’t come into it. I have often voted for one party’s candidate in state election and another party’s in federal elections.

    It is the individual candidate I vote for, not their party, not their leader.

    I stopped getting worked up about politics and politicians when the Kingdom of God became more important to me than any earthly kingdom.

    Prior to that I would write, fax and email letters to political leaders to express my anger at their policies. I joined a political party. I attended public protests. It was all in vain – worthless.

    I now trust God to use whoever gains power as His instrument for His purposes, no matter how uncomfortable things may become through bad policy. HIS purpose is to get people into HIS kingdom, not to improve earthly Kingdoms.

    We look to HIS Kingdom coming on earth – we don’t look for, or expect, the improvement of earthly kingdoms.

    And Chris, even nice Christians can have difficulty seeing through barriers created by long standing cultural conditioning.

  32. July 23, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Yes Tim, you’re right. We vote! We believe in that Democratic right! We exercise it! But we also expect “the whole world lies in the evil one.” The whole worldly system is opposed to God–it crucified Christ! It’s amazing it is not worse than it is!

    Our task is to get on with the jobs Jesus left us with: “Pray without ceasing” and “Go ye into all the world preaching the Gospel”. Because “Our Kingdom is not of this world.” “Here we have no continuing city but we seek one to come.” We are to “Seek those things which are above, where Christ sits at the right hand of God.” We are soldiers for Jesus who are “not to become entangled with the affairs of this life”. We are to “fulfil the callings” God has placed us on earth to complete.

    “The weapons of our warfare and not carnal, but spiritual”. Not fleshy methods used by the world but spiritual methods used by Christians. What I am seeing today is NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WORLD’S WAY AND THE CHRISTIAN’S WAY. Fleshly. God’s method of prayer is FAR slower, FAR less spectacular, but in the end it does the thorough job only God can do. And He is always worth waiting for.


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